thoughts on the switch from party to stars so far

[IceMuncher]

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There is a huge difference between the 100/200 level and the 100/200/25 level and it will take some time to adjust.

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I think I have read this comment maybe FIVES TIMES in the last week, but I am still struggling for its meaning. Would you be giving away to much to enlighten me just a little here. I promise I am not as dumb as I sound, but to this PP Refugee, it would seem that you would push/fold roughly the same group of hands in the same situations at BOTH of these blind levels.

Thanks,

Les

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There's dead money in the pot, usually an extra 50% or so. With 6 players left (more or less typical), the pot is $450 instead of $300. Also, you're getting ante'd off at the same time, so if you're playing tight it can sneak up on you if your not used to it. For now, I think of it as having 150-300 blinds, but with more FE.

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Right but it makes for even better pushing conditions. If you can get the 100/200/25 play down you will have a much bigger edge then a typical push/fold'er. Before when the limits went from 1/2 to 1.5/3 the optimal calling % almost doubled (it varied but in general). Now there is the same amount of money in the middle but the pot odds for the blinds dictate that they only call say 50% more often. I mean just to give you an example, SNGPT says to push 50% of the time (I don't suggest this) from the button w/ 5 12bb even stacked players in the game. And 35% of these pushes have an EV of +0.2% or more. There was no common pre-bubble situation at Party where you should have shoved over 50% of the time outside of the SB.

If you can make it to that level where there are > 4 people left in the game you have an opportunity to pick up a ton of EV. Especially if you are playing against "good" players who don't understand the changes. Obviously it doesn't matter much against morons who will spite call but the typical push about right/call too tight are going to have no chance against you.

There is also another key change when it gets to 200/400/25. It would probably be better to goto an M-style system but it is a pain in the ass to figure out M's on the fly.

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I think you've just said what I was trying to say when I said "but with more FE". But I don't think the ante at the 200/400 level matters much, since you'll be down to 2-3 players by then typically.

[blackize]

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But I don't think the ante at the 200/400 level matters much, since you'll be down to 2-3 players by then typically.


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Not at the higher levels

[MAF]

I'm glad to hear it's not just me then that's having a rough time at the moment with SNGs.

Thanks for making my day guys! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[sandycove]

Multi-tablers drove me from the $16s to what appear to be much softer $33s, although one table last night had all 9 players left half way through the 5th level... Lord...

[kevstreet]

As much as Party sucked (i.e. customer service, 'upgrades', etc.), I miss it!

[Zeke Yeehaw]

Wow... I find this thread most relieving...been a low level SNG player on stars for quite some time... for the last year I have been reading pp people posts and following their advice in a stars tourney just didn't make sense... I came to the conclusion that I needed to start pushing like a maniac at 75/150 - 100/200 was +ev... The problem is if you don't -- you wind up getting whacked by the blinds really fast... it sounds like you guys are noticing the same thing at the higher levels.

[JuntMonkey]

Let me just say that I've been pwning the $16's. Sample size be damned.

[Insty]

Someone must be winning [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Probably just Stars if we can't collectively beat the rake.

[Jbrochu]

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But, one reason may be that you have not adjusted to the new format. You're out of your comfort level, and everything (from the software to the blind structure) is new. I'm just now getting used to what I feel is a 'good stack' at particular levels and remaining opponents. It's taken me 100 tournaments.

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I think this is spot on. I'm a long time Stars player that tried several times to move to Party for all the supposed "fish" I kept hearing about. I kept getting my butt kicked in short order and came crawling back to Stars every time. I think it was just a comfort level I had with the Stars format and I never gave myself time to adjust to Party.

The good players will adjust to Stars in short order and probably end up doing even better on Stars once they get used to it. The biggest mistakes I'm seeing right now are people seem to be pushing too early. With the t200 and t200 + t25 levels, you can be more patient, especially if there are still 6 to 8 players left. I'm amazed at the crap I've recently seen people pushing from EP just because they're down to 8-to-10 BB's.

[staring_elf]

seems a good few are having problems with the switch, across all levels. makes me feel a bit better ;

i think end of november graphs, when things have settled down a bit, will make for some interesting viewing.