gawd, weakest over pair...

[Paul Thomson]

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raising from the button is standard here.

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maybe it is. but maybe the standard is wrong...limping cannot be losing that much value. 77 is a pretty weak hand...how low of a pocket pair would u raise, 55?

I like a raise alot more with 1 limper as opposed to two. With two limpers, you're getting great odds to call and hit a set. Also if you raise and the first limper calls than the 2nd limper is more likely to call.

In which case, you've got a big pot that you have to try and take down against 2 people when 7 out of 8 times, you're going to miss the flop. So you're going to make a big continuation bet on a flop which often will have at least a couple over cards.

Think how much easier it is to play the hand by limping. I doubt you give up much if any value and you make your post flop decisions 100 times more simple.

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opening any pp from any position for a raise is standard around these parts, all the winning players do it

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i know this...but what if there are 2 limpers?

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even with 2 limpers 77 is fine IMO, maybe with 22/33 id consider limping behind.

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ok, now you have to explain yourself. I explained why I don't like it.

I'm looking forward to your thoughts...and where's my boy dbitel to come to my rescue. If he shows up here and says raise, than I'm going to cry!

[carnivalhobo]

what are a lot of people open limping? small PPs. 77 has a ton of equity (like 80%) against those. Against any two overcards we are a sliight favorite, so taking the lead will give us a stab at the pot the 66% of the time they miss. Add in the deception of flopping a set as the PFR with 77 and volia instant monies. bilbo is right, the easiest way to play isnt always the most +EV. Limping here is certainly better than folding, but i think raising is better.

[Paul Thomson]

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what are a lot of people open limping? small PPs. 77 has a ton of equity (like 80%) against those. Against any two overcards we are a sliight favorite, so taking the lead will give us a stab at the pot the 66% of the time they miss. Add in the deception of flopping a set as the PFR with 77 and volia instant monies. bilbo is right, the easiest way to play isnt always the most +EV. Limping here is certainly better than folding, but i think raising is better.

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I agree 100% that the easiest way to play the hand isn't the most profitable. Are you going to fire a continuation bet against 2 villains on nearly every flop?

[bilbo-san]

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raising from the button is standard here.

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maybe it is. but maybe the standard is wrong...limping cannot be losing that much value. 77 is a pretty weak hand...how low of a pocket pair would u raise, 55?

I like a raise alot more with 1 limper as opposed to two. With two limpers, you're getting great odds to call and hit a set. Also if you raise and the first limper calls than the 2nd limper is more likely to call.

In which case, you've got a big pot that you have to try and take down against 2 people when 7 out of 8 times, you're going to miss the flop. So you're going to make a big continuation bet on a flop which often will have at least a couple over cards.

Think how much easier it is to play the hand by limping. I doubt you give up much if any value and you make your post flop decisions 100 times more simple.

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opening any pp from any position for a raise is standard around these parts, all the winning players do it

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i know this...but what if there are 2 limpers?

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even with 2 limpers 77 is fine IMO, maybe with 22/33 id consider limping behind.

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ok, now you have to explain yourself. I explained why I don't like it.

I'm looking forward to your thoughts...and where's my boy dbitel to come to my rescue. If he shows up here and says raise, than I'm going to cry!

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I'll put up a buy-in that DB says you should raise pre-flop.

[BalugaWhale]

BWHALE IS CALLING STATION

GO RAISE CALL CALL CALL

MAKE MONIESSSS

[bilbo-san]

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what are a lot of people open limping? small PPs. 77 has a ton of equity (like 80%) against those. Against any two overcards we are a sliight favorite, so taking the lead will give us a stab at the pot the 66% of the time they miss. Add in the deception of flopping a set as the PFR with 77 and volia instant monies. bilbo is right, the easiest way to play isnt always the most +EV. Limping here is certainly better than folding, but i think raising is better.

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I agree 100% that the easiest way to play the hand isn't the most profitable. Are you going to fire a continuation bet against 2 villains on nearly every flop?

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That would be silly. Against 1 villain I won't even CB every flop. There are flops where checking has more value vs. 1 opponent, and there are flops that aren't worth stabbing at vs. 2 opponents (most notably A-high flops with a flush draw -- you get called, which is it? The draw or the A?)

[carnivalhobo]

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what are a lot of people open limping? small PPs. 77 has a ton of equity (like 80%) against those. Against any two overcards we are a sliight favorite, so taking the lead will give us a stab at the pot the 66% of the time they miss. Add in the deception of flopping a set as the PFR with 77 and volia instant monies. bilbo is right, the easiest way to play isnt always the most +EV. Limping here is certainly better than folding, but i think raising is better.

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I agree 100% that the easiest way to play the hand isn't the most profitable. Are you going to fire a continuation bet against 2 villains on nearly every flop?

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if these guys are limp/calling every time thats odd, many times you will take it down or see a HU flop. I rarely cbet 3ways, especially with a hand that has showdown value. Against some opponents, with the right flop id fire a cbet or maybe a delayed cbet here. If its HU im obviously cbetting.

[Paul Thomson]

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raising from the button is standard here.

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maybe it is. but maybe the standard is wrong...limping cannot be losing that much value. 77 is a pretty weak hand...how low of a pocket pair would u raise, 55?

I like a raise alot more with 1 limper as opposed to two. With two limpers, you're getting great odds to call and hit a set. Also if you raise and the first limper calls than the 2nd limper is more likely to call.

In which case, you've got a big pot that you have to try and take down against 2 people when 7 out of 8 times, you're going to miss the flop. So you're going to make a big continuation bet on a flop which often will have at least a couple over cards.

Think how much easier it is to play the hand by limping. I doubt you give up much if any value and you make your post flop decisions 100 times more simple.

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opening any pp from any position for a raise is standard around these parts, all the winning players do it

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i know this...but what if there are 2 limpers?

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even with 2 limpers 77 is fine IMO, maybe with 22/33 id consider limping behind.

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ok, now you have to explain yourself. I explained why I don't like it.

I'm looking forward to your thoughts...and where's my boy dbitel to come to my rescue. If he shows up here and says raise, than I'm going to cry!

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I'll put up a buy-in that DB says you should raise pre-flop.

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Don't make that kind of bet against a gambler. I'll just im, him and split the profits. You're luck that I don't angle shoot. (but you could very well be right!)

Random Topic: I'm in AC last weekend. Playing at a 2-5 table and we're taking rolled up cocktail napkins and shooting them at a garbage can about 20 feet away for $5 dollars a chip. My cousin sinks his first one. And then the next few (probably 5-6) go off the rim (although we've continued to drink - hence the cocktail napkins). A guy walks in from the High Limit room and gives me 5-1 that my cousin couldn't make the next shot. But I had to put up at least $500... so he'd obviously pony up $2500.

Who likes the action?

[mudbuddha]

man w/o a doubt raising here is standard.. other than showing extra strength, the flop/turn/river will be easy as hell to play. Even if it is fit or fold.

With the multiplier effect (from having extra $$ at preflop/flop will add up to a big difference on the river in general) and the ease of playing this hand on the button = way more +EV for raising than just calling..

[Dan Bitel]

easy raise pf (sorry PT!!!!) I don't limp anything!!!

call flop

call turn

call river