TPTK facing a min raise and a strong turn bet

[ReptileHouse]

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If he's really tight, as you say

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Who said villain is tight? I miss something?

[keikiwai]

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If he's really tight, as you say

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Who said villain is tight? I miss something?

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this was on Full Tilt and villain was using the little girl avatar

[ReptileHouse]

I just spit diet coke out of my nose.

[SABR42]

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this was on Full Tilt and villain was using the little girl avatar

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ROFL.

[orange]

I think that the chances that this river getting checked through are very slim. As always, reads help.

I think you should make the decision of whether or not you are going to call here and on the river. Calling and folding to further action is a decent plan most times, but in this instance, I think that the chances of him checking the river are very slim. Maybe he will check/fold the river with something like TT or 55, but meh.

So, by the flop/turn action, we can put him on a few hands IMO: clubs/2/J/some pp/air. We currently beat all but a 2 and some pp turned boat at the moment. I think that we can generally narrow out larger overpairs because they usually RR PF. But they still make up a tiny part of his range.

I think that I would call the turn. Then probably fold to a river bet if it were [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I'm not sure if I would fold to something like a 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], but folding the river is probably best to another bet, as I don't think typical opponents will c/r the flop/bet turn/river with something we beat.

I don't think folding now is terrible either.

[Albert Moulton]

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OP posted no reads, assume unknown

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I need to quit reading these quickly on lunch and coffee breaks. I must have mixed up this OP with another where the villain was marked as tight preflop.

So, I call and reevaluate at the river. Yet another big bet on the end probably beats AJ and I'd be willing to fold, but not yet. I listed some hand ranges in another post if villain wan't tight preflop, which he isn't, so its AA/KK/QQ (now less likely, since without a read I'd expect those to reraise preflop), JJ/KJs/QJs/AcKc/AcQc and maybe 99 that tried to check raise to snap off a cb and got lucky on the turn. I suppose A2s/K2s is possible if villain is loose enough to call a pfr OOP with that kind of weak hand. I don't see too many other hands that make sense. So, I think calling is good, folding is probalby just as good, and a willingness to drop the river is important if you call the turn and a non-club hits and villain bets more than a "blocking" bet on the river. I'd expect TPWK to make a 1/2 pot or less bet on the end, but bigger hands than TPTK to bet more.

[SMACK BOOTY]

I have a question: is 3 betting the flop a terrible move? Let's see; you raised PF, get raised to 12 on the flop, and you make it 24 or 36 to go. If he comes over the top now, can we safely fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[SABR42]

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I have a question: is 3 betting the flop a terrible move? Let's see; you raised PF, get raised to 12 on the flop, and you make it 24 or 36 to go. If he comes over the top now, can we safely fold? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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"Raising for information" is bad when all it accomplishes is fold out worse hands and bluffs, which we don't want to fold.

[bilbo-san]

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Basically what the above said is: "I call, call and call. I don't know what you have and I don't know if I can win. But I call and hope to collect money most of the time."

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Wow, are you good at either misrepresenting or misunderstanding what he actually said.

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Bilbo -

What do you think about the hand, though. Do you call?

And if you call, how big of a bet are you willing to call on the river. If the villain bets big on the river, it's either the nuts or he 3-barrelled with a minicheck-raise on the flop (which i've seen before).


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I call, planning to call big turn and river bets unless a club hits and then it's feel/history/how drunk I am [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I probably value bet any street that Villain checks on, except a club. If Villain checks a turn club, then I check behind and call a river bet or VB if checked to.

I can fold vs. some villains to a big bet on the river (especially if it's a K), but unknowns pull this [censored] so often with any decent J that folding is burning money.

You have to understand that the vast majority of TAGs (fuhgeddabout bad players) just don't GET that c/ring here with a weak J turns their hand into a bluff, and many players think that if their opponent is just calling, they can't possibly have a worse hand (otherwise they'd raise!!!1!).

You have to mercilessly take advantage of players like this, rather than giving them too much credit.