Middle Pair No Kicker

[Joujou]

When would you usually consider a pot to be big - 6SB or more on the flop maybe?

[OziBattler]

SSH says you can begin to consider a pot big if
1. its 6 handed or more preflop
2. its raised preflop and 4 handed or more
3. its 3 bet preflop
4. at least 2 of your opponents usually go to the river

remember that each of the first 3 situations may mean a different range of hands held by opponents and that you need to consider the flop texture when deciding how to proceed.

[DJSirMatthew]

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Joujou, in nano stars games you dont have to overpush hands like these. On the flop youve got a weak hand in a 5way, you have few outs whereas villians have plenty. they are great games and easy to beat because you get paid off big with big hands...just dont overpush marginal ones like this and youll be fine.

was your turn raise because you realised MP2 had 1BB left and likely stacking off and so you raised to get HU and to SD?

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Aussie, in what situations would be overpushing marginal hands like these be correct? I suspect in HU situations with a tight/weak player is one obvious situation, but maybe I'm missing some?

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1. when you have position and can get it to SD cheap
2. when your opponents are predictable
3. when the pot is very large (although it may depend on why it is large)

Things to consider when you flop a marginal hand are
1. pot size (see Large Pots v Small Pots, pg 145 is SSHE)
2. board texture (rags v somewhat coordinated v highly coordinated)
3. number of outs you have versus the number of combined outs your villians have (check out Reverse Implied Odds on pg 33 of SSHE). Theres also a footnote somewhere in SSH - I think it relates til waiting til the turn but whatever - where Ed discusses a situation where you have 4-5 opponents, all with maybe 5 outs but when those outs are combined then all of a sudden you have to dodge alot of cards to actually have your marginal made hand hold up.

In small pots checking and folding is often best. In large pots you may have to find a way to protect your hand.


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Aussie, I'm puzzled how one can protect his hand in large pots? Aren't large pots the reason why it's hard to protect your hand since the pot odds will be high enough for everyone to call?

My opinion would be that if the pot is large and I have a marginal hand I would like to go to SD as cheap as possible, since I'm happy to win the pot as it stands with a marginal hand. That said, that might just be a reason to try and pick the pot up at that moment and not going to SD at all. I guess it depends on the specificity (how many opponents, what kind of opponents) of the situation (having a marginal hand in a large pot situation).

[FUJItheFISH]

i think making the most money from these games is just playing 50% of your hands and playing them wildly. it really lets you just value cap your weaker hands for tons of dimes.

but if you want to not develop bad habits so you can move up, i suggest folding the flop.