Is God "just"? - Page 3

Lestat · #21 10-10-2006, 02:54 PM

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It depends on where he lives. If he's in Afghanistan or Iran, he might be killed for leaving his religion. If he's in most other Muslim countries, he'd probably be ostracized, but wouldn't be killed.

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Well that can't be good, can it? Would you consider that "unjust"?

See, revots says that God is not a just god if a muslim "spends eternity in hell because he happened to be born into the 'wrong' religion" when it's actually an "unjust" force that's keeping him in that religion.

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Are you implying that the unjust force of man in the blink of an eye time he is on this earth overrides the omnipotent force of an eternal God?!?!?!?

I am guilty of not thinking things through at times txag, but I wonder if you think at all before you post. It seems as though you just make it up as you go.

Hopey · #22 10-10-2006, 03:30 PM

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It depends on where he lives. If he's in Afghanistan or Iran, he might be killed for leaving his religion. If he's in most other Muslim countries, he'd probably be ostracized, but wouldn't be killed.

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Well that can't be good, can it? Would you consider that "unjust"?

See, revots says that God is not a just god if a muslim "spends eternity in hell because he happened to be born into the 'wrong' religion" when it's actually an "unjust" force that's keeping him in that religion.

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I'm trying to understand how you think (without going insane in the process). Are you arguing that the "unjust" force that keeps Muslims true to their faith is "Satan"?

revots33 · #23 10-10-2006, 03:57 PM

Most Muslims are not looking to switch religions anymore than most Christians really want to switch to Islam. Most people follow the religion they were born into. This is probably more due to brainwashing than anything else - but that doesn't make it some sort of Satanic anti-Christian conspiracy.

What txaq and most fundamentalists don't realize is that if they happened to be born in Iran, they'd be praising Allah and proclaiming the evils of Christianity right now.

slik · #24 10-10-2006, 04:24 PM

Well no. I finite amount of punishment, followed by reconsideration would be more appropriate. The converse is not "just" either: getting a free walk for all of eternity for a finite amount of "good", or lack of "bad", or whatever the finite requirements are. This is sort of analogous to working hard at your new job for 2 months, and then getting by on your reputation.

slik · #25 10-10-2006, 05:02 PM

That case where the Afghani citizen was being ostracized because he wanted to convert to christianity was completely blown out of proportion. There are 100s of thousands of christians (and jews) living openly and peacefully in Iran, and other muslim majority countries. Not sure what/where you are going towards with this question, but generally, the answer is the same thing that happens to a christian in this country that decides to practice a different faith.

Hopey · #26 10-10-2006, 05:07 PM

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That case where the Afghani citizen was being ostracized because he wanted to convert to christianity was completely blown out of proportion. There are 100s of thousands of christians (and jews) living openly and peacefully in Iran, and other muslim majority countries. Not sure what/where you are going towards with this question, but generally, the answer is the same thing that happens to a christian in this country that decides to practice a different faith.

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While there are plenty of jews and Christians living in these countries (which shocks many people), it *is* true that in many Muslim countries, leaving the Muslim faith is grounds for a death sentence. It isn't forbidden to *be* of another faith, but it's forbidden for a Muslim to leave his/her faith.

I'd still like to know what txag was getting at, though.

kurto · #27 10-10-2006, 05:07 PM

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Not sure what/where you are going towards with this question,

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In many txag threads... he goes where ever his random thoughts take him. It is for others in the forum to decipher if where he's going has anything to do with the thread.

slik · #28 10-10-2006, 05:09 PM

... and my initial question was geared at all monotheistic religions, as they are all identical in this regard. If you argue against Islam in this aspect, you are actually arguing against Christianity, too.

kurto · #29 10-10-2006, 05:12 PM

I'm just wondering... do you play poker? I just rechecked and noticed that the only posts you've ever made are you pushing your religion.

I'm just wondering if you don't play poker (and you don't seem interested in discussing it since I see no such posts) what brought you here? I know there's a lot of Christian spammers who create accounts, spam the forum with their propaganda and disappear.

What's your story? How do you end up here hanging out on a poker forum preaching your faith? (part of me starts to see a conspiracy where you guys are assigned random forums where you try to spread your propaganda.)

I apologize if this should have been a PM but I figure others might be interested too since I assume most of us are poker players who wander into the side forums.

slik · #30 10-10-2006, 05:29 PM

What is your source of news -- fox and cnn? It is true that there is a lack of freedom of speech in these countries, and so minorities perhaps cannot go around demonstrating or converting people. But there is an absurd amount of difference in passively changing your religion and being sentenced to death, and actively causing a ruckus in conservative country with no freedom of speech.