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#21
09-20-2006, 03:21 AM
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Re: Common theistic error?
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[ QUOTE ] "I think the bible is the true word of God because it makes sense to me that he would want us to be able to know him and I believe we cannot know God's mind." [/ QUOTE ] I don't know anyone who phrases it like this. Try: "I think the bible is the true word of God because it makes sense to me that he would want us to be able to know him but I believe we cannot know God's mind completely." [/ QUOTE ] The fact nobody phrases it like this is my point. People rely on both arguments but in different situations - i dont think this makes sense. As a side note - I dont see the second as any different arent "but" and "and" logically equivalent? "But" just indicates that there is a contradiction when I read it like that. 
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#22
09-20-2006, 03:29 AM
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Re: Common theistic error?
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"but" and "and" logically equivalent? [/ QUOTE ] Huh? [ QUOTE ] "But" just indicates that there is a contradiction when I read it like that. [/ QUOTE ] No, it indicates a difference, limitation or exception. Also, I did add a word at the end.
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#23
09-20-2006, 03:30 AM
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Re: Common theistic error?
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How do you know which of your assumptions about god's mind are true (ie that he would want us to know him) and which arent? [/ QUOTE ] I try to get all my assumptions about God from the Bible.
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#26
09-20-2006, 03:37 AM
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Re: Common theistic error?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] "but" and "and" logically equivalent? [/ QUOTE ] Huh? [ QUOTE ] "But" just indicates that there is a contradiction when I read it like that. [/ QUOTE ] No, it indicates a difference, limitation or exception. Also, I did add a word at the end. [/ QUOTE ] Apologies - I did miss the word at the end. So with the "but" for "and" substitution and the addition of completely, are you allowing that your reason for believing in the bible may be groundless? I would stress - I dont think there is a contradiction if you believe the bible is the true word of god as a matter of faith and also that God's mind is not completely knowable to us. I think there is a contradiction if you somehow try to "deduce" the infallibility of the bible based on God's presumed motive.
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#28
09-20-2006, 03:43 AM
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Re: Common theistic error?
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So with the "but" for "and" substitution and the addition of completely, are you allowing that your reason for believing in the bible may be groundless? [/ QUOTE ] I don't see the progression, why the way I stated it leads to groundless belief. [ QUOTE ] I think there is a contradiction if you somehow try to "deduce" the infallibility of the bible based on God's presumed motive. [/ QUOTE ] I don't "deduce" from motive. The Bible says it is God's Word and also that God cannot lie, is perfect, omniscient, etc., so the deduction would be the Bible is infallible because God is.
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#29
09-20-2006, 03:46 AM
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Re: Common theistic error?
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"I think the bible is the true word of God because it makes sense to me that he would want us to be able to know him but I believe we cannot know God's mind completely." [/ QUOTE ] The fact that it makes sense that he would want us to be able to now him, doesn't make the bible his words or attempt. The bible could very well be the most deceitful of Satan's works. Come to think of it, I thinks it is. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#30
09-20-2006, 03:47 AM
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Re: Common theistic error?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So with the "but" for "and" substitution and the addition of completely, are you allowing that your reason for believing in the bible may be groundless? [/ QUOTE ] I don't see the progression, why the way I stated it leads to groundless belief. [/ QUOTE ] Not that it does, but that it may. If you follow the argument you outlined and claim to believe in the bible because god would want us to know him, then follow it up with but we cant know his mind completely. Doesnt not being able to know his mind completely imply that we may be wrong about him wanting us to know him? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think there is a contradiction if you somehow try to "deduce" the infallibility of the bible based on God's presumed motive. [/ QUOTE ] I don't "deduce" from motive. The Bible says it is God's Word and also that God cannot lie, is perfect, omniscient, etc., so the deduction would be the Bible is infallible because God is. [/ QUOTE ] This is what I thought your position was. It certainly means you are not proposing what I think are contradictory positions. There are people who defend belief in the bible based on what they think God would want. These are the theists I am referring to.
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