|
|
#21
08-30-2006, 06:31 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Lagtard on my left and I\'m lost
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree....your implied odds go down not up...you or 4 bettign before you even see the flop...that's 1/4 your implied odds....yes you make some back if the mainiac keeps raising(does he here its not been stated). on the big betstreets...nbut its not usely enough. [/ QUOTE ] Not only is the maniac going to put in at least a few raises postflop (that's kind of the definition of a maniac), but nobody else at the table is going to respect either his raises or your re-raises (you might just be trying to isolate on him, right?), at least not until the turn. So while yes, you end up paying more preflop to shoot for your set, you are going to more than make up for that postflop in a game like this. 
|
|
#22
08-30-2006, 07:33 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Lagtard on my left and I\'m lost
if pots are inflated/multi-way, this is the perfect time to LOOSEN up as oppose to tightening up. The big,multi-way pots are going to have huge overlays, so suited-connectors and middle pairs go up in value. This lets you play more pots. Your variance is gonna go up, but the pots are gonna be worth the payoff.
|
|
#23
08-30-2006, 07:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Lagtard on my left and I\'m lost
Suited connectors, really? Do you think this is a good environment for suited connectors. They thrive on implied odds and passive play. Paying 4 SB's to see the flop with T9s is not a situation I like to put myself in. You know the maniac on your left is going to be raising postflop, so even with many bets going in preflop, you still may not have the implied odds to continue after the flop.
|
|
#24
08-30-2006, 08:01 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Lagtard on my left and I\'m lost
[ QUOTE ]
Suited connectors, really? Do you think this is a good environment for suited connectors. They thrive on implied odds and passive play. Paying 4 SB's to see the flop with T9s is not a situation I like to put myself in. You know the maniac on your left is going to be raising postflop, so even with many bets going in preflop, you still may not have the implied odds to continue after the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I'm certainly not advocating calling 4 bets cold with T9s. but limping up front and seeing how the action turns out is preferable to folding, when the pot almost a lock to be LARGE and multi-way. If it comes back to me capped 6 ways, of course I'm gonna put in 3 bets to win 25.
|
|
#25
08-30-2006, 09:05 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Lagtard on my left and I\'m lost
[ QUOTE ]
if pots are inflated/multi-way, this is the perfect time to LOOSEN up as oppose to tightening up. The big,multi-way pots are going to have huge overlays, so suited-connectors and middle pairs go up in value. This lets you play more pots. Your variance is gonna go up, but the pots are gonna be worth the payoff. [/ QUOTE ] id say you have a point but not a very good one. with those types of hands you ussually wont make your hand until the turn. however if you have a table full of sneaky players and one lag id accually ply j10 and qj suited for 2 or 3 bet preflop(becuase they will let him bet the flop and smooth call him giving you a cheap op to draw, then when they go for their raise on the turn and you hit look whos getting paid nasty style). but paying big preflop and on flop just to get a few bets from the remaining players on the turn and river probably dont have alot of ev.
|
|
#26
08-30-2006, 09:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Lagtard on my left and I\'m lost
[ QUOTE ]
So while yes, you end up paying more preflop to shoot for your set, you are going to more than make up for that postflop in a game like this. [/ QUOTE ] Are you sure about this? The math doesn't work for me. The standard assessment is that you need about 9-1 or 10-1 to pay for your set, assuming you fold on the flop if you miss. You're 7.5-1 against hitting your set in the first place and sometimes your set won't win, especially in pots like this where people have odds to draw to gutshots and BDs. So if you pay 4 bets PF to play a PP, you'll need a 20-22BB pot just to break even. The pots were big the other night, but "only" 15-20BB. I don't think, even in this game, that you could count on the huge pot you need to play 4 bets PF for a set. BTW, this is even more true for speculative hands like suited connectors. With those, you'll often flop a draw and be forced to put in more bets on flop and turn hoping to connect. At least with a pair, you'll be able to get away with only 4 bets if you miss. I hope I didn't give people the impression that the whole table was on tilt, because that wasn't the case. The whole table was after the maniac's money. Often we'd see 3-4 people to the flop for 4 bets, but not 6. And people weren't just playing awful hands; I think it was more that they were getting trapped in the scenario soweak describes: EP limps with a decent hand. MP limps with JJ intending to LRR Hero limps with 98s Maniac raises EP calls MP raises Hero has a tough decision now. But he called intending to see a flop so he calls. Maniac raises... Etc. I chose to avoid 98s and the like here but of course I'm not sure if it was the correct thing to do.
|
|
#27
08-31-2006, 10:46 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Lagtard on my left and I\'m lost
It really depends on how much action people are giving you postflop, and whether they are committing to showdown early. If they play straightforwardly and non-showdown-y then you don't have to readjust at all. The hard part is if everyone tries blasting you out with Ace high to get HU on the flop or turn.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
