How do I win this pot? 10/20 Stud Hi - Page 3

jon_1van · #21 08-29-2006, 01:31 PM

Bill,
Your right that we do have an Ace up and K behind...which is generally good enough for a LP steal. However, one of the arguments for completing is that given our K (and the dead one) it is very unlikely that our opponent has split Kings, hense it may be a good time to steal.
However, that argument goes both ways. Our K is dead, so its not like we are stealing with (Kx)A with only a dead Q and a rag behind (which we can all agree would be a standard steal). This case is more like we have (xx)A and there is a deadish card and a rag behind. And in the xxA case I don't ALWAYS steal. I'll let one slide when I've recently been active...or I'll throw out a completion based on my recent inactivity. This bleh feeling about stealing is primarily a result of the tight structure.

So how do you look at this? Do you think "That guy probably doesn't have K's so I'll try to steal from him" or do you look at it like "I have AK ... so I'll steal" Do you even consider your image when you make this play?

PoorLawyer · #22 08-29-2006, 01:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is an auto raise in this spot

[/ QUOTE ]

You can raise in this spot frequently. But if you take a shot at EVERY availible ante steal you'll be spewing too much in tiny ante games.

I think you can "auto raise" in a standard 30/60/5 structure (or any bigger ante). But I don't think you should go insane everytime at 10/20.

[/ QUOTE ]

<u>you're not going insane really, i didnt say take a shot at the ante with napkins.

you have an A up, and a K behind, the guy is going to simply have to have a hand every single time to pop you here.</u>

so yes, IMO its an auto complete.

[/ QUOTE ]

NICE READ POORLAWYER!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

My comment has nothing to do with reading your post, as I was not the one you were having the initial "discussion" with.

I was actually just commenting on your condescending know-it-all attitude.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, and using a specific example, in which case you are clearly wrong, is a good spot to make your point?

i am not a know it all, i respect the opinions of posters whom deserve the respect, not random ppl who have 6k posts, which clearly means they know something. and when i argue with someone, or challenge what they have to say, its because it almost always brings up deeper points that may not be easily seen by myself, or other posters.

if i come off as an a-hole sometimes, sorry, but i'm also not here to make friends.. if you are you're here for the wrong reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the only thing I responded to, posted by you:

"kta;thsa;hktha;tha

did you even read my last post?

please dont waste my time. "

I think this specific example illustrates my point just fine.

Bill King · #23 08-29-2006, 01:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Bill,
Your right that we do have an Ace up and K behind...which is generally good enough for a LP steal. However, one of the arguments for completing is that given our K (and the dead one) it is very unlikely that our opponent has split Kings, hense it may be a good time to steal.
However, that argument goes both ways. Our K is dead, so its not like we are stealing with (Kx)A with only a dead Q and a rag behind (which we can all agree would be a standard steal). This case is more like we have (xx)A and there is a deadish card and a rag behind. And in the xxA case I don't ALWAYS steal. I'll let one slide when I've recently been active...or I'll throw out a completion based on my recent inactivity. This bleh feeling about stealing is primarily a result of the tight structure.

So how do you look at this? Do you think "That guy probably doesn't have K's so I'll try to steal from him" or do you look at it like "I have AK ... so I'll steal" Do you even consider your image when you make this play?

[/ QUOTE ]

I absolutely think your image is an important factor. Ante stealing is EXTREMELY important as you move up in stud games and the ante structure is bigger in comparison to a small bet. But some think that because the ante is smaller in small games that it should be ignored and not taken advantage of, given the right set of conditions.

If you're a pretty straightforward player, I think you can get away with it. There will be times when you have a thinking and/or loose player behind, but you should consider this in your stealing attempts. You never posted whether or not this guy was a maniac or if he was solid. If hes a maniac, just tighten your stealing range up, and punish him for getting out of line.

your ability to steal ante's and play with less than premium cards in spots like this will have an affect on your BB/100 ratio in the long run. if you're never stealing, you're giving money away and not maximizing your profit.

In this case you may have gotten caught (if he's not a thinking player knowing you could be stealing, and even then, you have an A up and that deserves respect), or if you have a loose maniac, you could be in not as worse shape as you think!

but as a general response to your dead card theory, we're not looking to make a hand here, we're just looking to take down the ante's. Even if villain calls your completion, you have a pretty decent chance to make a hand against him. but him re-raising you here sends off flags and you have to remember this the next time this comes up because you just may have to tighten up your range.. but if you play it correrctly you can exploit his willingness to play back at you and trap his aggressive style.

Bill King · #24 08-29-2006, 01:44 PM

so the fact that he clearly didnt read my post beforehand, which contained the answer to the question he responded with to me isnt wasting my time?

or are you just trying to start an argument with me? thats what it looks like.

cgrohman · #25 08-29-2006, 01:58 PM

Yeah, I don't either. I was talking about $20-$40 when the bring in is $5 and the anti is $3 so there is already $27 in the pot.

tpir · #26 08-29-2006, 02:00 PM

The problem is that you make statements you have to backtrack on... and then you end up either lashing out at people or trying to cover with 1,000 word strategy essays that are mostly filler. No one is trying to pick fights with you per se... but it's certainly difficult to post along side of you.

Bill King · #27 08-29-2006, 02:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I don't either. I was talking about $20-$40 when the bring in is $5 and the anti is $3 so there is already $27 in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah thats the structure I used to play a lot, so I got used to having this as part of my game. Online is different clearly.

when i play in the $75/$150 game the ante is $15.. you gotta get in there and play or it eats you up quickkk

Bill King · #28 08-29-2006, 02:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that you make statements you have to backtrack on... and then you end up either lashing out at people or trying to cover with 1,000 word strategy essays that are mostly filler. No one is trying to pick fights with you per se... but it's certainly difficult to post along side of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

there have been a few threads ive been a jerk in, and a few ive totally donked giving the worst possible answers, but i admit that. and sometimes i get lost in what my actual pointn was, but that happens to everyone from time to time.

but thats not the point of this, we can burn me later.

tpir · #29 08-29-2006, 02:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that you make statements you have to backtrack on... and then you end up either lashing out at people or trying to cover with 1,000 word strategy essays that are mostly filler. No one is trying to pick fights with you per se... but it's certainly difficult to post along side of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

there have been a few threads ive been a jerk in, and a few ive totally donked giving the worst possible answers, but i admit that. and sometimes i get lost in what my actual pointn was, but that happens to everyone from time to time.

but thats not the point of this, we can burn me later.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am not trying to burn you... just trying to point something out.

Take care,
tpir

Bill King · #30 08-29-2006, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem is that you make statements you have to backtrack on... and then you end up either lashing out at people or trying to cover with 1,000 word strategy essays that are mostly filler. No one is trying to pick fights with you per se... but it's certainly difficult to post along side of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

there have been a few threads ive been a jerk in, and a few ive totally donked giving the worst possible answers, but i admit that. and sometimes i get lost in what my actual pointn was, but that happens to everyone from time to time.

but thats not the point of this, we can burn me later.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am not trying to burn you... just trying to point something out.

Take care,
tpir

[/ QUOTE ]

its all good man, i got no issues with you.

maybe i'm just bad at conveying my thoughts. sometimes i think of something and maybe it comes out differently on the computer? ugh.. off to psychology forum lol [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]