EPT satellite @ pokerstars, table collusion.

[Yuv]

Echo, I posted before a much more blatant case of team playing in a 6-handed 109$ sng and stars did return the buyins (instead of banning the two cheaters, which would have been the correct move, and giving the prize money to the next players out).

The thing is, you are talking about 6-7 players combined, in a situation that Stars were known to ignore in the past. I wish you luck, but don't get your hopes up. They will probably get a warning and nothing else.

[McMelchior]

Yuv, can you do me a favor and post a link to the thread describing Stars ignoring satellite-collusion in the chat box earlier?

Echo, thanks for posting some documentation. Did you PM 10k-in-Clay about the HH from the transgressing table?
BTW, in Stars' reply they promise to look into the case. Nothing wrong with giving them a little time to do exactly that.

Re-reading your OP it appears that the actual - documentable - transgressions were limited to this:

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one of the players at the “healthy stack table” suggested that every one of them should sit out and wait

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and

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one of the players started provoking players to fold to the big blind

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Reading from this two players (or was it the same?) urged collusion.

Nasty. Infuriating. Un-ethical. Clearly a breach of the rules. I completely understand where you're coming from.

But there's no way you can prove that the other players were involved in a potential collusion. Sound satellite bubble strategy dictates folding even pocket-Aces if there are one or more stacks substantially shorter than your own. Players folding their strong hands - and stating what they were folding - were only following sound strategy, and bragging about this. There's even no way for you to know if they actually folded the hands they represented in the chat.

You can only hold the players urging this strategy in the chat responsible.

Is this reason enough for disqualification? As a repeated offence, no question at all. Take their seats away, distribute their bankrolls among everybody else, ban them from the site, place their personal information on a special "Cheating Scumbags" website and tip off the IRS & FBI. I'm actually serious here.

But - as much as I can feel you're anger & frustration - I can also understand if Stars end up with just "warning" first-time offenders. Tons of clueless players join the poker sites every day. We thrive on their cluelessnes. It's very possible for an offender to be equally clueless about the gravety of his actions. Imagine a clueless newb seeing his $5,000 seat disappear because he in the heat of the action suggested "why don't we fold to the money" in the chat. That's guaranteed to cause quite a stink, and notably a stink that might ward of quite a few "potential" customers.

I'm not saying this is right. I'm just saying I can see why Stars would show much more leniency than we'd like them to - towards first-time offenders.

[Soulman]

McMelch,

[ QUOTE ]
They talked about there hands all the time, and even when admin came to the table to warn couple of the players to stop talking about the hands and stop folding to big blind and warned that if they didn’t play, they would be disgualified. Obv. At the point that admin got there they had been doing this for a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

OP doesn't really state what the players said, but might indicate further foul play.

[colson10]

When i won my seat for Barcelona there was some controversy about a guy who said he'd pay the other players to fold to him. Apparently no one got out of line and it didn't affect the outcome so Pokerstars didn't do anything about it.

WTF, why is the chat not turned off at the end of these things. There's so much potential for collusion, especially when the bubble usually comes with 2 tables left.

[EchoNiko]

[ QUOTE ]
Reading from this two players (or was it the same?) urged collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]
It was actually the one and same player. And this player actually was the main villain in this drama. He talked about his hands all the time. He was the one that started provoking everyone at first to sit out and then to fold to big blind.

[ QUOTE ]
Sound satellite bubble strategy dictates folding even pocket-Aces if there are one or more stacks substantially shorter than your own. Players folding their strong hands - and stating what they were folding - were only following sound strategy, and bragging about this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know it is common strategy to do this. But the fact is that this one player suggested everyone to fold to the big blind and then that was what actually happened. That in my opinion, is wrong.

I want to thank you McMelchior for your great post.

I just think that it is time for pokerstars to make a stand.
How long are they just going to warn and threaten the players with the possibility of disgualification before it actually happens. Since when the pokerstars started to respect "newbies" more than the "regular, every day player".

[ajohnson16]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
usually stars disables chat in satellites with about 18 to go until the desired number of seats to the event. In every satellite I have playd on stars in the past two years (about 50) chat has been disabled with 1 left. So unless this site wasn't stars this doesnt really make sense

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PokerStars Game #5978862669: Tournament #29676836, $450+$25 Hold'em No Limit

Here is the last hand of the tournament:

*********** # 574 **************
PokerStars Game #5978942149: Tournament #29676836, $450+$25 Hold'em No Limit - Level
XIV (1500/3000) - 2006/08/19 - 19:58:19 (ET)
Table '29676836 24' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: LuckyDog1 (77718 in chips)
Seat 3: ips.seri (19032 in chips)
Seat 4: EchoNiko (16043 in chips)
Seat 5: abelino1 (158616 in chips)
Seat 6: hervattin (17996 in chips)
Seat 7: The-Toilet 0 (22822 in chips)
Seat 9: JesperPs (69495 in chips)
LuckyDog1: posts the ante 150
ips.seri: posts the ante 150
EchoNiko: posts the ante 150
abelino1: posts the ante 150
hervattin: posts the ante 150
The-Toilet 0: posts the ante 150
JesperPs: posts the ante 150
ips.seri: posts small blind 1500
EchoNiko: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to EchoNiko [Js Kd]
BKiCe [observer] said, "worse play ever"
abelino1: folds
hervattin: folds
The-Toilet 0: folds
BKiCe [observer] said, "how do you fold getting 2 to 1 when you have that many chips?"
JesperPs: folds
LuckyDog1: raises 3000 to 6000
ips.seri: folds
EchoNiko: raises 9893 to 15893 and is all-in
LuckyDog1: calls 9893
HostJacob [observer] said, "Observer chat is now off"
*** FLOP *** [Jc 8h 6s]
*** TURN *** [Jc 8h 6s] [As]
*** RIVER *** [Jc 8h 6s As] [3c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
EchoNiko: shows [Js Kd] (a pair of Jacks)
LuckyDog1: shows [Ah 9c] (a pair of Aces)
LuckyDog1 collected 34336 from pot
ips.seri said, "DAMNIT"
asia11 [observer] said, "Best rates for PokerStars w$ = www.tradewdollar.com"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 34336 | Rake 0
Board [Jc 8h 6s As 3c]
Seat 1: LuckyDog1 (button) showed [Ah 9c] and won (34336) with a pair of Aces
Seat 3: ips.seri (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: EchoNiko (big blind) showed [Js Kd] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 5: abelino1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: hervattin folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: The-Toilet 0 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: JesperPs folded before Flop (didn't bet)


And there you can see HostJacob saying: "Observer chat is now off".
And that’s when there is 13 players left.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one that noticed this?

Also, why is the link in that converted to UBB code? Do hand converters do this? (Seriously asking, not calling you out).

[Punker]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that noticed this?

[/ QUOTE ]

When the tournament ends, observer chat always goes back on. When Echo was eliminated, the tourney ended.

[ajohnson16]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that noticed this?

[/ QUOTE ]

When the tournament ends, observer chat always goes back on. When Echo was eliminated, the tourney ended.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh, forgot about that.

[hulk3rules]

I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you, but PokerStars doesn't give a [censored] about collusion on their site. Check this thread for an extreme example-

SNG super collusion

If they won't punish those players, you probably won't get any help either

[Quanah Parker]

Any luck yet Echo?