QQ gets minSqueezed - 2/4 - 6max - Page 3

vanHelsing · #21 08-15-2006, 11:42 AM

Now, I checked for all the reasons CopTHIS posted.

Party Poker No-Limit 400 (5 handed)

Hero ($382)
Button ($181.94)
SB ($161.40)
BB ($388)
UTG ($25.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, Hero raises to $14, Button calls $14, SB (poster) calls $12, BB raises to $20, Hero raises to $100, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $76.

Flop: ($228) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($228) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $50, Hero calls $50. (same reasoning as flop check)

River: ($328) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $150, Hero ?

FGators · #22 08-15-2006, 11:42 AM

Cop,

what are you doing if we check and the turn is a black 4 and he leads for $200?

If you call and the river is a black 5 and he pushes we are doing what?

FGators · #23 08-15-2006, 11:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Now, I checked for all the reasons CopTHIS posted.

Party Poker No-Limit 400 (5 handed)

Hero ($382)
Button ($181.94)
SB ($161.40)
BB ($388)
UTG ($25.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, Hero raises to $14, Button calls $14, SB (poster) calls $12, BB raises to $20, Hero raises to $100, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $76.

Flop: ($228) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($228) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $50, Hero calls $50. (same reasoning as flop check)

River: ($328) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $150, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given this situation I think we have to fold because I think we butchered the flop.

NT! · #24 08-15-2006, 11:45 AM

This is why I hate checking the flop. Even betting 100 on the flop is better. Can't see how you can call this without a better read.

NT

seawassp · #25 08-15-2006, 11:46 AM

This is my point exactly Van. You have no idea where you stand on the river because you gained no information on either the flop or the turn. By betting the flop you take away this play from him with a worse hand. It is much harder for him to pull this off with a worse hand if you bet the flop.

He has put you to the decision instead of vice versa. I hate being in this spot so i try to figure out where i am at as early as possible and i am willing to pay a little something for that info to avoid ending up in that river spot.

vanHelsing · #26 08-15-2006, 11:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now, I checked for all the reasons CopTHIS posted.

Party Poker No-Limit 400 (5 handed)

Hero ($382)
Button ($181.94)
SB ($161.40)
BB ($388)
UTG ($25.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, Hero raises to $14, Button calls $14, SB (poster) calls $12, BB raises to $20, Hero raises to $100, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $76.

Flop: ($228) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($228) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $50, Hero calls $50. (same reasoning as flop check)

River: ($328) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $150, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given this situation I think we have to fold because I think we butchered the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
This makes no sense to me.
You vote for investing like 130 on flop, just to make him play perfect.
Calling down passively, like I did, costs us 200 (not so much of a difference), but with a much higher probability our hand is actually good. No?

CopTHIS · #27 08-15-2006, 11:50 AM

Well if I call the $200 on the turn I think I could find another call on the river getting about 7.6-1 against a donk. On the turn I'd either call or fold - but whatever way it's better than firing into him. He may or may not bet the turn. And if he bets it may be a tiny bet - how many players who make that PF play and are 55/30 (even over a small sample) make plays like that? And if he is the more aggressive donk-type then calling the $200 is just fine. Much better than betting the flop. I honestly think people haven't looked at the stack sizes and donkiness of villian when they talk about pot control by betting the turn.

CopTHIS · #28 08-15-2006, 11:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I hate checking the flop. Even betting 100 on the flop is better. Can't see how you can call this without a better read.

NT

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I may scream soon.

vanHelsing · #29 08-15-2006, 11:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is my point exactly Van. You have no idea where you stand on the river because you gained no information on either the flop or the turn. By betting the flop you take away this play from him with a worse hand. It is much harder for him to pull this off with a worse hand if you bet the flop.

He has put you to the decision instead of vice versa. I hate being in this spot so i try to figure out where i am at as early as possible and i am willing to pay a little something for that info to avoid ending up in that river spot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe I am getting this wrong, but this sounds like you are making a play, to have easier decisions later, not to increase the overall expectation.

CopTHIS · #30 08-15-2006, 11:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now, I checked for all the reasons CopTHIS posted.

Party Poker No-Limit 400 (5 handed)

Hero ($382)
Button ($181.94)
SB ($161.40)
BB ($388)
UTG ($25.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, Hero raises to $14, Button calls $14, SB (poster) calls $12, BB raises to $20, Hero raises to $100, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $76.

Flop: ($228) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($228) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $50, Hero calls $50. (same reasoning as flop check)

River: ($328) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $150, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given this situation I think we have to fold because I think we butchered the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
This makes no sense to me.
You vote for investing like 130 on flop, just to make him play perfect.
Calling down passively, like I did, costs us 200 (not so much of a difference), but with a much higher propability our hand is actually good. No?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well yes. You gain from daft donk plays with JJ or TT (or some junk) that he may have folded and get a showdown (should you call, which I think you have to here) for only a bit more than some would pay for "information". If he had checked you could even value bet at the end.