TPTK vs TAG, common situation - Page 3

Jamougha · #21 07-25-2006, 01:53 AM

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Still, what do you make of the river bet?

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Against a typical TAG at 1/2 you are not good here. He'd raise KQ/KJ from the CO so he's not betting with top pair. I doubt he has the balls to fire 3 barrels with air. (though I know one or two 20/10 people who will pot 3 streets into you with 55)

EMc · #22 07-25-2006, 01:54 AM

Hero has shown no aggro all hand. As played, I think you need to call.

mkflsam · #23 07-25-2006, 01:54 AM

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He isn't going crazy with KQ. Either you are chopping or he has you beat. I would fold.

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Do you ever say this after he bets the turn?

For myself I know there are a lot of people who fire 2 barrels (for value or as a bluff) but will let off the gas for the third. That seem logical?

mkflsam · #24 07-25-2006, 01:57 AM

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He'd raise KQ/KJ from the CO so he's not betting with top pair.

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I raised on the button and he called in the BB. Does that change anything for you?

EMc · #25 07-25-2006, 02:00 AM

IF you have been raising regularly OTB then this is more of call.

Jamougha · #26 07-25-2006, 02:01 AM

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He'd raise KQ/KJ from the CO so he's not betting with top pair.

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I raised on the button and he called in the BB. Does that change anything for you?

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Agh, I thought he was the UTG limper.

Yah, that's a lot tougher. I would need to know the guy to make a read. By default I would call because you have TPTK and he doesn't think you're that strong, and because leads at this level are relatively rarely strong hands.

EMc · #27 07-25-2006, 02:03 AM

Jam,

If hero has been playing a normal TAG btn, how is this anything than an instacall. The more I think about it, the better his line is. Hell, a value raise on the river here might even been in line.

It all depends on how hero has played the button in the past couple of times.

antidan444 · #28 07-25-2006, 02:04 AM

My two cents:

1. This hand plays easier if you raise to $50 on the flop and take it from there, especially against a guy who sounds solid and non-tricky. Taking this line or the call-and-evaluate line, IMO, have similar EVs if played well, so I generally take the one that I'm going to have an easier time making good decisions on.

2. With your line, I like a river fold here. I can't be sure enough my hand is no good to fold to the half-pot bets on the flop or turn, but that river bet screams strength to me. It's a little bigger, and most solid players won't triple-barrel here with anything you beat IMO.

EDIT: That, and by the river here it just feels like he's installment-planning us to death.

Jamougha · #29 07-25-2006, 02:10 AM

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If hero has been playing a normal TAG btn, how is this anything than an instacall.

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The regulars at 1/2 tend, IME, to be pretty passive. There are certainly people I've played against who I insta-fold the river to, esepcially when the size of the bet is larger relative to the pot than on the previous two streets.

Btw mk, the pot is the same size it would be if you had raised and checked behind/called.

mkflsam · #30 07-25-2006, 02:11 AM

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Jam,

If hero has been playing a normal TAG btn, how is this anything than an instacall. The more I think about it, the better his line is. Hell, a value raise on the river here might even been in line.

It all depends on how hero has played the button in the past couple of times.

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I usually steal 30-35% or more, not sure how it has run at this particular table though. Usually I raise every pot I play in position whether it's AA or 54s, pretty standard.

Anyways, I called, although I'm not sure if it's correct.

He had 33.

River: ($118) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $72, Hero calls $72.

Final Pot: $262

Results in white below: 
BB has 3h 3s (three of a kind, threes).
Hero has Ks Ah (one pair, kings).
Outcome: BB wins $262. 

I'm still not sure which line is more +EV, call/call/make a decision, or raise/check/call or bet.

I'm thinking the more aggressive the opponent, the better it is to let him hang himself and the tighter the opponent better just get some money in the pot for value + cheaper showdown.