114 KK vs very good player

[Snarf]

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samson,

Typically I'd re-raise to 300 but ok, if your read is that he's going to fold everything but AA then there's less value in re-raising than there is flat calling. So what I'd do is flat call against this particular villain.

But think about what you're saying here. If villain respects your re-raises so much that he's only calling them with AA, then you should be re-raising him with everything under the sun when he enters a pot. And keep on doing this until he no longer needs AA to call. Long term, that's how you get value out of KK here. But in this instance, I suppose flat call would be the best.

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this is correct

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No it isn't because I don't want to play a pot with KK out of position against a very good player. I would reraise with KK and I would reraise with other hands if I really think he will fold everything but AA here.

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I should have been more clear... I meant the part about reraising him with all sorts of hands.

[suzzer99]

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Okay, I don't understand how flat calling is best here. The reason is the limpers. If he were HU with the strong villain, then the "villain will only call a raise w/ AA" argument might be valid. As it is, seems if he flat calls, isn't there a high probability at least one limper will also call? And if so, isn't that a bad situation for this hand?

I'd reraise to 300 here. I'm willing to go broke with KK against AA.

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Right, the limpers are also the reason you can't just reraise any old garbage here. This is what a lot of people seem to be missing when they say to raise anything if bufo will really fold all but AA. bufo knows hero has to be concerned about the limpers, which keeps hero's play basically honest.

[Snarf]

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Okay, I don't understand how flat calling is best here. The reason is the limpers. If he were HU with the strong villain, then the "villain will only call a raise w/ AA" argument might be valid. As it is, seems if he flat calls, isn't there a high probability at least one limper will also call? And if so, isn't that a bad situation for this hand?

I'd reraise to 300 here. I'm willing to go broke with KK against AA.

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Right, the limpers are also the reason you can't just reraise any old garbage here. This is what a lot of people seem to be missing when they say to raise anything if bufo will really fold all but AA. bufo knows hero has to be concerned about the limpers, which keeps hero's play basically honest.

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but doesn't honest work both ways?

both that we can't raise trash here

but also taht we can't flat call KK?

and here is something no one has mentioned:

what if dude actually gets away from QQ here? There are still others in the hand we can get $ from. Not to mention that if we cold-call, flop play is extremely difficult, espeicially with limpers coming along for the ride.

[wiggs73]

Ok, I missed that hero is in the SB. I do agree that that fact alone makes raising at least AS good of an option as flat calling, if not better. Probably better because yeah, I wouldn't mind playing against bufo OOP b/c I think it would be a fairly straight forward strategy, that being "get all-in on the flop". Most of the time anyway. But playing KK post-flop OOP againsti 1 or 2 limpers AND bufo would suck a lot of the time.

[suzzer99]

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Okay, I don't understand how flat calling is best here. The reason is the limpers. If he were HU with the strong villain, then the "villain will only call a raise w/ AA" argument might be valid. As it is, seems if he flat calls, isn't there a high probability at least one limper will also call? And if so, isn't that a bad situation for this hand?

I'd reraise to 300 here. I'm willing to go broke with KK against AA.

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Right, the limpers are also the reason you can't just reraise any old garbage here. This is what a lot of people seem to be missing when they say to raise anything if bufo will really fold all but AA. bufo knows hero has to be concerned about the limpers, which keeps hero's play basically honest.

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but doesn't honest work both ways?

both that we can't raise trash here

but also taht we can't flat call KK?

and here is something no one has mentioned:

what if dude actually gets away from QQ here? There are still others in the hand we can get $ from. Not to mention that if we cold-call, flop play is extremely difficult, espeicially with limpers coming along for the ride.

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Yes it does work both ways. I mentioned flatcalling at first when I was thinking hero was in MP. If hero and villian were both say EP - I might like a flatcall in hopes of a reraise from one of the other players. Bufo's call of that reraise would certainly *not* be guaranteed to be aces.

But as hero is in SB with a couple other limpers already, the possibility of one of them reraising seems low. So I think you have to reraise and hope for the best. Also yeah the dream scenario is that one other calls the reraise and bufo folds.

The point I've been trying to make it that by reraising, hero is basically giving away his hand to bufo. Still doesn't mean he shouldn't do it. But if bufo pushes over, I'd almost guarantee aces or kings.

[bigt439]

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Yawner. Reraise.

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[Mench]

Does Bufo think hero reraises with QQ here. Also, can't Bufo's raise from the button be AK and sometimes JJ TT given his position.

If he thinks Hero only reraises AA/KK and that we will fold KK to his shove (will we) he can easily exploit this.

[suzzer99]

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Does Bufo think hero reraises with QQ here. Also, can't Bufo's raise from the button be AK and sometimes JJ TT given his position.

If he thinks Hero only reraises AA/KK and that we will fold KK to his shove (will we) he can easily exploit this.

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Bufo's initial raise can easily be AK/JJ. We're not talking about bufo's original range, just bufo's call/push range facing a reraise from hero. Bufo will not call or push with JJ or AK if hero reraises. Bufo may or may not put QQ in hero's reraising range. But it doesn't really matter, as bufo is always calling with anything above QQ and always folding anything below QQ. If bufo has QQ, it makes no difference to him whether hero's range is AA-QQ or AA-KK.

As far as bufo exploiting KK, I think that's getting into some rarefied territory. I doubt if anyone ever expects another player to fold KK, which means you probably can do so w/o being exploitable. But don't admit it. Or if you have to brag about your sick laydown, don't do it next time.

[bigt439]

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Does Bufo think hero reraises with QQ here. Also, can't Bufo's raise from the button be AK and sometimes JJ TT given his position.

If he thinks Hero only reraises AA/KK and that we will fold KK to his shove (will we) he can easily exploit this.

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People always talk about how plays are exploitable and [censored] like that, and it's not untrue, but no one seems to understand there is a massive distinction between whether a play is exploitable and whether it WILL be exploited. There were maybe 3 people I worried about changing up my play for when I played sngs. Just something to consider.

[MadScientist]

Def reraise.
There are other players in the hand. Get them to come in and get Bufo to fold. Stack a limper.
300 is too much IMO.