Theists: Why does god punish people after death?

[MidGe]

Where does Aquinas say "Eternity has always been philosophically defined as the absence of time" or aything remotely like it. Resorting to strawman arguments, now, Peter?

[Peter666]

No, my arguments are factual. Look it up yourself. I can't bottle feed you all the time. What Aquinas have your read by the way?

[MidGe]

Can't find any reference. I have no access to your imagination.

[chezlaw]

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Hell isn't where the devil will prod at you with his firy poker..

Hell is simply what is the absence of God. It wasn't designed for torture, it's that way beacuse on earth we can experience both the hellish and the comforts and pleasures that come with God.

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So heaven is like earth without the mindless, morality imposing, ideology ridden zeolets.

It does sound good.

chez

[AceofSpades]

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Wouldnt the absence from him be punishment enough??


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Being so for an infinity is an infinite punishment and just as cruel and sadistic imo. It is again an instance of trying to rationalise the unreasonable: a concept of god as evil.

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Why it unreasonable to have a concept of god as an evil being? Or maybe I read you wrong.

Joseph

[chezlaw]

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Wouldnt the absence from him be punishment enough??


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Being so for an infinity is an infinite punishment and just as cruel and sadistic imo. It is again an instance of trying to rationalise the unreasonable: a concept of god as evil.

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Why it unreasonable to have a concept of god as an evil being? Or maybe I read you wrong.

Joseph

[/ QUOTE ]there's nothing unreasonable about the concept of an evil god. Its just unreasonable or dishonest to claim such a god is good.

Trouble is most humans have a strong sense of good/bad. It seems that most humans are actually quite decent people (though they aren't as noisy on average as the nasty ones). the problem for religon is how to reconcile the fundamental decency of most people with a deeply unpleasant conception of god.

chez

[Schmitty 87]

fwiw, I think (in theology) that there's definitely a difference between "eternity" and "endless time". Tillich talks about it, but I can't remember in what.

[KeysrSoze]

As long as everyone (well some) is throwing out philosophical theology, I think I'll throw in my oddball theories. So lets say eternity is the absence of time. God was around before he created time, so therefore God was left alone with no sensation and no frame of reference with nothing but his own thoughts for unimaginable eternity. I reckon this is why God is so completely, utterly insane. What else could drive a perfect being to create an imperfect universe but the need to escape that unbearable infinite sensory deprivation chamber that was pre-existence? Why else would an omniscient omnipotent being create creatures that would be like ants to him and demand their unfailing worship and obedience, but for the hell he experienced that made him grasping, needy, starved for attention and unable to bear being alone. Hence his spiteful "well lets see how you like it" shtick after you die when you don't kiss his ass. Thats my 2 cents, I don't have any references real or imaginary on my part, though its as reasonable as any explanation from the <strike>philosophers</strike> [censored] artists.

[bluesbassman]

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Why does an all powerfull benevolent god desire to punish those who do not believe in him for eternity?



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Obviously, this "god" (as described by xtians) is hideously evil almost beyond comprehension.

What's more interesting is how belief in this evil being so easily leads believers to adopt an evil ethical code. For example, for hundreds of years Catholic theologians (along with, presumably, most of their followers) advocated murdering innocent people for the crime of "heresy."

A person can be good only in so far as he or she rejects faith-based ethical doctrines, including the Christian version. In fact, I claim the fundamental "cause" of evil in men is epistemological: namely, the abandonment of reason for faith. This thread is a good illustration; notice how some Christians, through tortuous "reasoning," actually attempt to justify the eternal torture of innocent people.

Once rationality is rejected, then ethically, anything goes. It clears the path, so to speak, for evil ideas.

[MidGe]

I agree with you bluesbassman.

It goes further. When theism is combined with the notion that god is good against all manifestations, it desensitize people to suffering (and the human condition) and hence you get comments like "it's not eternal punishment it is eternal lack of reward" without blinking an eye at the grossness of this conception. I have said before, this type of theism is only a very small step away from the notion of suicide bombers as martyrs, and is a very dangerous notion to the whole of humanity, as has been demostrated numetrous times in history.