Is it ever correct to fold AA in a cash game?

[CurryLover]

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Well, unless you play with open hole cards it's never correct and that's what matters.

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That's not quite true - this is the poker theory section, after all. There is occasionally some worth to looking at obscure theoretical bits and bobs since doing so can sometimes help you penetrate the inner structure of the game.

In this case, I am not too sure. It has been done to death now, but original poster didn't know that.

I remember working out how it could be possible to have AA drawing dead pre-flop. I can't remember how many players there had to be, but there were more than 10. I posted this a year or so ago as a problem, but can't find the thread (I hate the search tool here).

[tomtemor]

CurryLover, I remember a thread like that. I think there had to be 13 guys all in or something like that.

[Number27]

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CurryLover, I remember a thread like that. I think there had to be 13 guys all in or something like that.

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AA v AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, 77, 66, 55, 44, 33, 22 means aces are drawing virtually dead to a straight or four flush.

[HoneyBadger]

The obvious way is to give 14 people AA, 22-AA, but I think you can do better. What if instead of 22-33 you give one person 23? Now any other card will still win from the AA, unless it's all 2s and 3s, in which case the 23 wins with quads always. Now give the next 45 instead of 44-55, then AA always loses to either quads or a boat. Again give 67 instead of 66-77, again AA can't win. Down to 11 people. You also have to make sure all these cards are in the same suit as the target AA, putting 11 of 13 in the hole and flushes impossible. I don't know if you can cut down one more player somewhere... (or did I make a mistake already?)

Damn... 9TJQK rainbow is a split of course. Well at least he can't win. I don't think you can do anything about that.

[HoneyBadger]

Oh, but of course you can prevent that... simply give one more player something like KK. 12 players then, AA drawing dead. Any lower bids?

[JCCARL]

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i clicked yes since postflop there are so many instances u can be beat.

preflop= no

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Standard

[KenProspero]

I'm not sure I understand your question -- do you mean Pre-Flop. I can't think of a case where I'd fold AA in a cash game. Do you mean post flop? Yeah, many cases.

[Cooker]

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I had a hypothetical situation in mind, before I knew I was a reposter, LOL. If you held AA in the BB of a .50/1.00 game, and the game is 6 handed. Everyone at the table has $20 stacks and everyone goes all in to you. This call would have a negative EV is your opponents held AA, KK, QQ, 98s, and 54s. Not saying that you don't call, because you dont know what the other players have, but in this particular situation, the call would render a negative EV.

Sorry for the repost I should have browsed first.

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The only reason the AA is so low in this case is that he only gets half the pot when he wins. Is it possible to make AA a dog preflop? Yes. Is it likely even when 5 people shove or call all in ahead of you? No. If 5 people call all in ahead of you 98s and 54s are very unlikely. The likely hands are AA, KK,QQ maybe JJ or TT, and AK. What you should learn from this is not that you should fold AA if 5 people are all in in front of you, but that you should maybe call with 98s:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1798386
pokenum -h ah ac - ad as - kc kh - qc qd - 9s 8s - ks kd
Holdem Hi: 658008 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Ah 15162 2.30 313213 47.60 329633 50.10 0.273
As Ad 9258 1.41 319117 48.50 329633 50.10 0.264
Kc Kh 36 0.01 653768 99.36 4204 0.64 0.002
Qc Qd 130514 19.83 525557 79.87 1937 0.29 0.199
9s 8s 171138 26.01 484933 73.70 1937 0.29 0.261<-- ding ding biotch
Ks Kd 0 0.00 653804 99.36 4204 0.64 0.002

[AlanBostick]

As phrased, the answer is clearly "yes".

What? You meant "before the flop"? You should have said so in the first place.

[BBB]

The best I can do is this:

As Ac
Ad Ah
Ks Kc
Qs Qc
Js Jc
Ts Tc
9s 8s
7c 6c
5s 4s
3c 2c
Th Td

11-handed, AcAs is drawing virtually dead, except that everyone splits the pot if the board is a 6,7, or 8-high straight flush in hearts or diamonds. Add a 12th hand like 5d5h and the black aces are completely dead.