50NL: AK 101 for the millionth time

[Dan Bitel]

hey chomp,

I'm in the 4betting camp here. esp as you opened on button and he's got aggro stats and he's 3bet you before.

I normally just mash the pot button here, but I guess just shoving is OK too. The great thing about having AK here is that it lowers the chances he has AA/KK. and every other hand we're flipping with.

Giving his a "getting all in preflop" range of QQ+/AK, then we need him to fold 42% of the time. You guys will know if this is likely or not. I personally think it is given the situation and if you give him a 3betting range even as tight as AQ+/TT+, then thats easily more than 42% he's folding. Add in a few light 3bets etc and I think this becomes a trivial 4bet preflop.

As for the flop, I guess to be on the safe side, you can just fold, but once you have some reads, this could become a pretty easy shove

[danny8]

since you're ip i think calling is fine. oop i'd either shove or fold.

shoving has its merits, i.e you dont have to fold the best hand when you miss and he cbets, you get to see all 5cards etc

his calling range is fairly narrow but because of positions and his recent 3bet hes prolly more likely to look you up. prolly has a range of TT+ AQs+ ako+ for calling a shove, maybe not TT or AQ.. but i def cant see him folding JJ+ or ak.

you're a 60/40 dog if you shove and give him a tight calling range. However you're almost certainly ahead of his 3betting range.

as played on the flop im def not folding here. we're either calling to allow him to continue bluffing, or shoving. i'd prolly just shove since its so likely hes 3betting 'light', draws are more a part of his range

[duke186]

depending on the player, your reverse implied is through the roof, so maybe fold preflop? his 3bet range has to be narrower than normal out of the sb, i just think you're going to hit and pay him off too often. As played I fold the flop

[skiller3]

If SB is decent he is leading the flop with any two cards (I'm not saying he can have any 2 after 3betting preflop, I'm just saying that AFTER 3betting he will be leading the flop regardless). You have TPTK. A 26/20 could have AA KK JJ TT AK AQ AJ(sometimes) and sometime weaker stuff if he thinks you were raising light.

I call this turn and shove most turns. You have the best hand here A LOT, although I don't think shoving the flop gets action from anything you beat. This flop isn't really the nightmare people are making it out to be.

[Kimo White Devil]

Shove preflop. all the rest becomes so easy.

[Triggerle]

I fold AK to pre-flop 3bets all the time at NL50.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.870% 30.56% 12.31% 18835139 7591111.50 { AcKd }
Hand 1: 57.130% 44.82% 12.31% 27625582 7591111.50 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }
</pre><hr />

I shove vs. short stacks or once I have identified an opponent as a light 3bettor. I need more than 30 hands for that usually.

[bozzer]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold AK to pre-flop 3bets all the time at NL50.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.870% 30.56% 12.31% 18835139 7591111.50 { AcKd }
Hand 1: 57.130% 44.82% 12.31% 27625582 7591111.50 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }
</pre><hr />

I shove vs. short stacks or once I have identified an opponent as a light 3bettor. I need more than 30 hands for that usually.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trig, folding AK pf in this spot is a decent-sized mistake. I'm not awake enough to back that up I'm afraid, but I 100% never fold given positions and reads.

I also don't like shoving - maybe I just run bad but the varience I get from doing this is massive. from the numbers i did it's like a couple of dollars of +EV, but obviously big swings.

Calling is standard and fine. You *usually* need to play for stacks when you hit, but this is definately one flop you can pull back from dive bombing.

[Triggerle]

Boz,

Against the range I proposed you will often hit and be behind. This is why calling is really bad. (Think RIO.) Raising is fine if our opponents have a wider range than what I proposed. (My Pokerstove numbers show that without that wider range we are -EV.)

Calling would theoretical be fine against such a wider range, too, but at NL 50 and below it requires reads to put someone on such a range.

Edit: Still talking about 100bb opponents. Vs shorties the gloves are off.

[bozzer]

so we are getting 2-1 pot odds, so our showdown equity is good enough to call.

i disagree that we are in a RIO situation.

1) we're in position which really helps with the RIO/IO situation obviously

2) if we hit our equity against TT+,AQ+ is approx 72% and depending on the board the calling range might be that wide (mostly not admittedly).

3) his range is not that narrow - AJ could be in there for instance.

OOP against a tight player 3betting, you have a point.

[Fiksdal]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold AK to pre-flop 3bets all the time at NL50.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.870% 30.56% 12.31% 18835139 7591111.50 { AcKd }
Hand 1: 57.130% 44.82% 12.31% 27625582 7591111.50 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }
</pre><hr />

I shove vs. short stacks or once I have identified an opponent as a light 3bettor. I need more than 30 hands for that usually.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] plz.

this is bad.

Depends so much on the player though. Villain needs to be really tight, then you can fold AK to a 3bet.

God. I thought I was in the FR forum for a while.