Big call vs bigjoe2003, how bad is this really?

[TheActionKid]

I would never fold AK to bigjoe here if he shoves into me. I know that he knows that im not gonna call with AA KK QQ etc... and therefore he WILL push ATC here and AK will have him beat almost every time.

-TheActionKid

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
My reasoning is that while this might be -EV for me, it is worse more -EV for him, and if I make calls like this against regulars, they will not be able to profitably push garbage on the bubble any more vs. my big blind. (he had J6).

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not going to read it all, but how do you expect a call with AKo to narrow his pushing range? Maybe if you show up with JTo or something he will narrow his range, but given AKo is fairly rare, I wouldn't be narrowing my range either.

[suzzer99]

I guess we assume the shorties don't want to bubble, and are something like 66+,ATs+,AJo+. At JJ+ for hero, joe's range is 100%. At TT+, AK, AQs, it's 87%. If hero is on 66+,ATs+,AJo+, bigjoe's range drops to 9%.

Can you see how putting some doubt in his mind could make a big difference?

[Gramps]

As alluded to, the problem is he's on your left, not your right. That makes a big, big difference for the expected EV of near-future hands.

But yeah, calling is fun to do sometimes.

[billybeartku]

if you think by calling him w/ AK here will tighten up his pushing range in the future had similar situation comes up against you, you are obv wrong. You think bigjoe's gonna tighten up his range against you? c'mon, you know it's a -EV call, meaning if you keep making the this type of BIG CALL on bubble time, I'm sure you're the long time loser.

[bigj0e03]

it cost you the $37 plus future ev because you would still have been chipleader on the bubble, the other two short stacks would have been whittled down to almost nothing before one went out, and you would be winning 3 blinds for ever 1 blind I won. Calling me here is just absolutely stupid, and probably cost you around $100 in just this tournament. Yea it cost me money as well, but I guarantee you it cost you more because I am going to spite call the [censored] out of you every chance I get from now on, and I am rich enough that the money it costs me won't mean anything. And I 16 table continuous so I will be in a ton of your games. Congrats on the metagame call. And I'm not shoving low unsuited cards there because the short stacks aren't folding near as much as all of you have been assuming.

[eurythmech]

[ QUOTE ]
it cost you the $37 plus future ev because you would still have been chipleader on the bubble, the other two short stacks would have been whittled down to almost nothing before one went out, and you would be winning 3 blinds for ever 1 blind I won. Calling me here is just absolutely stupid, and probably cost you around $100 in just this tournament. Yea it cost me money as well, but I guarantee you it cost you more because I am going to spite call the [censored] out of you every chance I get from now on, and I am rich enough that the money it costs me won't mean anything. And I 16 table continuous so I will be in a ton of your games. Congrats on the metagame call. And I'm not shoving low unsuited cards there because the short stacks aren't folding near as much as all of you have been assuming.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=epeen

[suzzer99]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=epeen

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advertising

(I love these kinds of threads. So fun.)

[suzzer99]

[ QUOTE ]
it cost you the $37 plus future ev because you would still have been chipleader on the bubble, the other two short stacks would have been whittled down to almost nothing before one went out, and you would be winning 3 blinds for ever 1 blind I won. Calling me here is just absolutely stupid, and probably cost you around $100 in just this tournament. Yea it cost me money as well, but I guarantee you it cost you more because I am going to spite call the [censored] out of you every chance I get from now on, and I am rich enough that the money it costs me won't mean anything. And I 16 table continuous so I will be in a ton of your games. Congrats on the metagame call. And I'm not shoving low unsuited cards there because the short stacks aren't folding near as much as all of you have been assuming.

[/ QUOTE ]

This from the same guy who wrote:

I think this sums up nicely exactly the situation here. I hope all of you realize that DDBeast shoving here is basically taking like 30 dollars out of hg's pocket and putting it into his own. And when your the chipleader on the bubble its your right to take that 30 dollars. So if hg continues to let DDBeast push marginal crap on his bubble all day long then he loses alot of money in the long run. So its worth getting no money in this tournament in order to let DDBeast no that if he pushes when hg is the chipleader on the bubble he will get randomly called with anything. How often? who knows, but probly often enough so that DDBEast will eventually stop pushing marginal crap.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post9024679


(That was a fun thread too.)

Also if hero folds here, he's not the CL anymore. But I'm sure joey will still going to let him shove through at will.

[JDalla]

[ QUOTE ]
it cost you the $37 plus future ev because you would still have been chipleader on the bubble, the other two short stacks would have been whittled down to almost nothing before one went out, and you would be winning 3 blinds for ever 1 blind I won. Calling me here is just absolutely stupid, and probably cost you around $100 in just this tournament. Yea it cost me money as well, but I guarantee you it cost you more because I am going to spite call the [censored] out of you every chance I get from now on, and I am rich enough that the money it costs me won't mean anything. And I 16 table continuous so I will be in a ton of your games. Congrats on the metagame call. And I'm not shoving low unsuited cards there because the short stacks aren't folding near as much as all of you have been assuming.

[/ QUOTE ]

nice metagame post, but as someone else pointed out, I was just following what you say here:

I think this sums up nicely exactly the situation here. I hope all of you realize that DDBeast shoving here is basically taking like 30 dollars out of hg's pocket and putting it into his own. And when your the chipleader on the bubble its your right to take that 30 dollars. So if hg continues to let DDBeast push marginal crap on his bubble all day long then he loses alot of money in the long run. So its worth getting no money in this tournament in order to let DDBeast no that if he pushes when hg is the chipleader on the bubble he will get randomly called with anything. How often? who knows, but probly often enough so that DDBEast will eventually stop pushing marginal crap.

So basically, you agree with me. I'm not going to continue this chicken game if I can help it.


I may not be on the 99 aston martin status, but I'm confortable enough to match spite calls. But that's a silly road for anyone to go down. So, my plan for here on out is basically to mirror your calling ranges. If you are spite calling me with T9, I'll do the same. If you are folding AKo everytime in this spot should our situation be reverse, I just might start mucking the AKo.

What I won't do is sacriface my EV so you can simply increase yours.