JJ vs. thac, turn question - Page 3

ikestoys · #21 10-30-2007, 03:23 AM

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ike, what i mean is that villain rarely has a better hand, or a worse hand that bets into us anyway, so i'm perfectly fine with just folding him out and regretting calling the flop bet. that way when i have a busted KJ or something in a spot that i can't double barrel, he's more likely to fold to the first bet.

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In poker, we try to maximize our expectation. Playing the hand the easiest way does not maximize our expectation.

djj6835 · #22 10-30-2007, 03:25 AM

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ike, what i mean is that villain rarely has a better hand, or a worse hand that bets into us anyway, so i'm perfectly fine with just folding him out and regretting calling the flop bet. that way when i have a busted KJ or something in a spot that i can't double barrel, he's more likely to fold to the first bet.

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You double barreling here isn't going to stop villain from flat calling the flop with 66 next time he's in this spot and you have air. Just save the double barrels for times when it is warranted bc it is the best play. Don't sacrafice ev in this spot for some image purpse that villain is likely to forget ten minutes later.

DaycareInferno · #23 10-30-2007, 03:26 AM

i'm not doing it to play the hand in the easiest way possible. i'm doing it, because in poker we also play more than one hand. i understand what you're saying with regards to this particular hand, but i don't really see what's that hard to understand about what i'm saying.

SnffnMrkrz · #24 10-30-2007, 03:29 AM

If he has 98 or 99, he can't really call a turn bet because you are repping a queen. He might turn his hand into a bluff but that's not the best card to do it on when you lead into him again.

DaycareInferno · #25 10-30-2007, 03:30 AM

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ike, what i mean is that villain rarely has a better hand, or a worse hand that bets into us anyway, so i'm perfectly fine with just folding him out and regretting calling the flop bet. that way when i have a busted KJ or something in a spot that i can't double barrel, he's more likely to fold to the first bet.

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You double barreling here isn't going to stop villain from flat calling the flop with 66 next time he's in this spot and you have air. Just save the double barrels for times when it is warranted bc it is the best play. Don't sacrafice ev in this spot for some image purpse that villain is likely to forget ten minutes later.

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sometimes it does, and sometimes it makes them call 2 or 3 times with it. it makes flop decisions much harder, because in all likelyhood, they're not just for one bet.

EMc · #26 10-30-2007, 04:20 AM

ike,

I am currently presenting that I think c/f is too weak in teh uNL thread. Now I are confuzzled. I feel as if given the history and knowledge of hte players this has the potential to be not so ABC.

Check_The_Nuts · #27 10-30-2007, 01:51 PM

Thank god this was posted in SSNL too. I was going crazy in uNL trying to figure out why everyone all the sudden thought bet/call was the best line.

I agree this is a check/fold. I think check/call is super-optimistic, especially against someone described as "ABC TAG". Even if he did get out of line occasionally its a weird spot for him to bluff. Finally, with no diamond we have little chance of improving on the river.

I find in uNL the 50NL hands are so different from the 5NL/10NL/25NL hands that the quality of advice for that particular level is poor. Its just a reflection of having few 100NL+ players commenting on the hands.

Frogic · #28 10-30-2007, 02:08 PM

For what its worth, I play 17/14 and I think that anything other than check/fold is a pretty big spew against his range. Unless you have a good read that he both floats the flop with pairs, and doesn't try to showdown(turning your hand into a bluff) after you check betting can't be good.

KingofNits2 · #29 10-30-2007, 02:14 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
ike, what i mean is that villain rarely has a better hand, or a worse hand that bets into us anyway, so i'm perfectly fine with just folding him out and regretting calling the flop bet. that way when i have a busted KJ or something in a spot that i can't double barrel, he's more likely to fold to the first bet.

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In poker, we try to maximize our expectation. Playing the hand the easiest way does not maximize our expectation.

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Like double barreling a station with A high :P .
j/k i agree with pretty much everything you say in every thread here. C/f is best without any history and if both players play very ABC.

Unknown Soldier · #30 10-30-2007, 02:15 PM

i think b/c is the worse of our options, followed by c/c.