NL200 How to play QQ overpair

[NL Newbie]

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If we planned to stack off, do we think bet/calling is better than C/rall in?

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yep, cause giving a free card on this board would be pretty bad

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Yeah for sure, however do you think 3bet pots will often get check down on the flop?

IME normally someone bets like 80-90% of the time. Thoughts?

However im wondering also if betting will induce bluff/weaker pushes than check-raising will at c/r is pretty strong play?

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well if villain is good he'll take his free card w/ weak draws that he may also bluff-push if we c-bet. i think what you're saying is that if we bet he will shove a lot of mediocre draw type hands that he will fold if he bets and we c/r, and if so i agree w/ you and that's basically why we should bet/call.

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basically yeah, so i'm weighing up between inducing a big shove 'semi bluff' vs inducing a bet by calling.


I guess we must bet/call to widen his range (Shoving vs calling range). However i still feel very unhappy about stacking off here due to what i asume isn't going to be a huge % of hands we're ahead of.

Also his bluff range will have fairly good equity i imagine [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Tough spot i guess!

[gball]

Don't you think AK/AQ calls the 3bet in position often? And might wanna make a move to get you to fold your likely AK/AQ?

[Some9]

without read I b/f. No reason to put my money in on this flop.

[awjpoker]

Not saying it is not against my initial thoughts also but i have looked through all my QQ hands recently and have had to come to this approach. Bear in mind the flop and turn bet sizes also dictate how easy it is to get away from. As i say this is not how i have played these until recently but if you are happy to broke with QQ most times in this situation i can assure you most times you will be going broke on that hand. Or perhaps my QQ runs incredibly bad for me but overplaying them is definately not a good idea from the samples i have. Yes people can have draws but any reasonable draw also has a fair amount of Equity against you so getting all the money in against a draw does not mean you win the hand by any means.

[futuredoc85]

well if you agree that we are betting the flop then we will be getting 2:1 if we bet $40 and he shoves, so its a call even if he only ever has 77+. add in some draws and a bluff or 2 and its an easy bet/call.

[awjpoker]

To add to this i think recently this has become more my line as so many people just call a 3 bet with KK or AA so they can stack JJ, QQ on a low board.

When they used to shove pre-flop it made this much easier to get away from cheap.

To address the other comment in position i may also bet flop, check behind turn then call river bet in the hopes of inducing a bluff or a low top pair to bet. Out of position this becomes much harder as most people will bet into you on the turn if you check.

[futuredoc85]

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without read I b/f. No reason to put my money in on this flop.

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then you should be flatcalling preflop

[Some9]

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without read I b/f. No reason to put my money in on this flop.

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then you should be flatcalling preflop

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I obv play against different ppl than you guys. When an unknown at my site shoves this flop over my big c/bet its like never a str8 draw, only sometimes a FD and almost always a set. you always say sets+FD but take a look at how many hands actually flop a flush draw. I mean he will have a set 2-3 times more often as a FD simply by his pf range.

[futuredoc85]

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without read I b/f. No reason to put my money in on this flop.

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then you should be flatcalling preflop

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I obv play against different ppl than you guys. When an unknown at my site shoves this flop over my big c/bet its like never a str8 draw, only sometimes a FD and almost always a set. you always say sets+FD but take a look at how many hands actually flop a flush draw. I mean he will have a set 2-3 times more often as a FD simply by his pf range.

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34,650 games 0.005 secs 6,930,000 games/sec

Board: 8c Tc 7s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.195% 33.30% 01.90% 11538 657.00 { QcQd }
Hand 1: 64.805% 62.91% 01.90% 21798 657.00 { 77+, AcKc }


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if you bet $40 and he shoves you're getting 2:1 so its still a call vs this range which is about as nitty as it gets for shoving the flop.

its also a call vs a range of JJ+ fwiw.

[Unknown Soldier]

lol @ folding anywhere