Caesar's Palace- Player went all in and ran away with $ after I called

[Michigan_Madman]

[ QUOTE ]
(EDIT TO ADD: First, I'm sorry this happened to you. This sucks. There, that's out of the way. The rest of this post rips you for expecting Caesars to reimburse you. Sorry for the harsh tone that follows.

How on earth can you expect CP to vouch for everyone who walks onto their property? "Sir, your seat is ready on Table 9. We've done extensive background checks on each of you opponents, and we are confident that they won't try to steal from you. In the unlikely event that they DO steal any of your money, don't worry, we'll make it good."

You got robbed. CP detained the suspect, and called in the law. I can't believe you would expect any more of them.

I'm no fan of the Harrah's family, but I must applaud the efforts of the dealer, floorman, casino manager, and security staff that you described in your post.

Blaming them for any of this is just plain demented. I can understand how getting gyped out of $1200 can make you very emotional. But you've got to take a deep breath, and look at this in perspective. They saw the problem, acted quickly, and did all you could possibly expect of them.

If the casino had to pay you whenever this happened, you'd see it happen every hand, until the casino closed their poker room.

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't need to vouch for everyone who walks through their door. But if everyone walking through their door knew that the full brunt of Caesar's would be on their ass if they welch on a bet, it wouldn't happen. Like I said earlier, if this happened at a blackjack table, the money would already be in their hands, and if not, they'd make sure they got it. They could do the same courtesy for a poker room customer.

Every hand? If you're going to debate this, at least say something reasonable. The same argument applies here. If people know they face prosecution and Caesar's dedicated collection of a debt, there would be no problem.

I agree the casino staff here did what can be expected within the limitations they describe. I'm still sure that they would be handling this differently if they were owed the money, and not me. To act like they were saints by holding the guy and calling the cops is a little too much. Gee, you were robbed on our property, so we'll hold the guy and call the cops. Not like they went out on a limb there.

I never said I blame them. In fact, I said it was all J.R.'s fault. I still think they could have done more, and should have. To say what they did was above and beyond is ridiculous. I was robbed, so they detain the guy and call the cops. <polite applause>

[BobboFitos]

you should sue (no joke) take him to court

[StevieG]

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If people know they face prosecution and Caesar's dedicated collection of a debt, there would be no problem.


[/ QUOTE ]

That debt is not owed Caesars, it is owed you.

Caesars did the right thing in detaining the man, calling the gaming commission, facilitating collection of statements, and likely providing video evidence.

The man is being charged with a felony.

I am not a lawyer, but you can find the Nevada Criminal code on the Web.

This is a category C felony, meaning the guy is facing 1-5 years in prison, a fine, and having to pay restitution to you.

Caesars brought their weight and the Nevada Gaming Commission onto J.R., and all you had to do was point your finger. And Caesars offered you dinner.

It is unfortunate and unpleasant that this happened to you. But Caesars is in no way responsible for the unpleasantness and if anything they made things a whole lot better for you.

Or tried to, but you're too ungrateful to notice.

[StellarWind]

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They declared the bet valid, and the call as well. What I expect is for that to be upheld. If it requires physical force, then yes, that is what I expect.

[/ QUOTE ]
That would be another robbery. You simply cannot take money off someone's person by force.

[StellarWind]

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You got robbed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Everyone keeps saying this and I don't understand it. The money is in the pot until the dealer pushes it which obviously didn't happen here. Seems to me the dealer (meaning the house) was robbed.

[StellarWind]

So where is the money? Did the police actually seize it?

[RR]

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He siad he is putting you all in; that is binding for poker, but who knows what a jury would say. If he is charged adn this thing goes to trial they are going to see a video tape of him not putting a thing in the pot and then throwing his cards in the muck. I would be very suprised if a prosecutor decides to prosecute this case.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a lawyer, but I would LOVE to prosecute this case.

I've got 4-5 eyewitnesses. And if the defense wants to talk about the videotape, I'm going to ask why the defendent was stuffing his pockets and fleeing as soon as he saw his opponent's cards, before the hand was even over, before it was even his turn to act. He'll give some excuse, but nobody will buy it, in the context of the eyewitness testimony--especially if that tape shows him acting in turn for the preceding several hands.

Courts have somehow managed to get convictions for centuries before the invention of photography. You don't need a video of the crime to get a conviction.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, but are you going to be able to convince a court that saying your putting someone all-in is the same as putting all your chips in? There has to be criminal intent for a crime to exist here (that is if he believes he wasnt' all-in and was putting his money in his pockets to keep someone from stealing it from him). Also I have serious doubts about this entire story. I would expect gaming to charge him with a gaming crime as opposed to robbery.

[TheStation]

I hope the police kept any money on him as evidence so that its easier for him to pay you back if found gilty

This is a sad story but if you search the archive, you would find this same story posted by others for similar amounts (im feeling to lazy to search and post links right now). I remember stories like this from AC and California casinos, none of the casinos can force the money into the middle, one story I remember that was posted on here happened at the Bike this summer if I remember right.

I hope you are paid at some point but this is just an unfortunate thing that happens on a rare basis, but the casino cant force anyone to pay, maybe we need to all start playing on ePoker machines, wouldnt have this problem [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] just joking, i still love live play and wouldnt trade it for anything...

[Noo Yawk]

I'm not a lawyer, but casinos are given gaming licenses and permitted to take a rake, not just for the convenience of renting space and dealing cards. There is an understanding that you as a player are assured of a safe and fair game. I would contact a lawyer to determine if the casino did in fact live up to there end.

[StevieG]

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I'm not a lawyer, but casinos are given gaming licenses and permitted to take a rake, not just for the convenience of renting space and dealing cards. There is an understanding that you as a player are assured of a safe and fair game.

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt.

But in what way did Caesars fail here in their obligation to deal a safe and fair game?

J.R. is the one that took back the bet. Caesars acted legally to keep the man on their premises and alert authorities.

Caesars management supported the wronged player, and offered extra to engender good will.

How did Caesars fail the player?