Two Super Fun Hands

[FGators]

doc,

I think people are much more likely to raise top pair hands or a hand like Jacks/tens in hand 2 because of hero's aggressiveness and the fact that people always seem to think people have AK.

In a limped/raised pot and that flop, for hand 1, I don't think you see a villain who is bitching about bad beats raising less than pocket sevens or a sexy pair/flush draw.

It's usually a set or 86/56.

[FGators]

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There is no way in hell that a shove in Hand 1 is standard. Folding is more standard than shoving.

Hand 2 I think I get it in and it's much closer to a "I'm not considering folding."

Basically

Hand 1: I lean towards a fold

Hand 2: I lean towards a shove

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His range includes so many draws that folding the first hand is def. giving up EV in my opinion.

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No it doesn't.

People who limp call and pull this stuff have like two pair/sets/straight (nuts) or a ridiculously good draw that is basically ahead of AA anyway.

I'd like to know results because these uncreative limp callers don't play big draws like 2+2ers.

[yad]

Hand 1 is a shove IMO. IP you could call and shove over his turn lead (or bet if checked to) on a safe turn, but OOP it just stinks.

Hand 2 is an instashove. The thing other folks are not realizing is that if your RR raise is wide enough that you are routinely RR AQo+ and presumably AJs+, or wider, then villains will be calling with a wide enough range that they have to shove these flops with hands other than AA/KK/sets. They will turn up with JTs or KQo or AK here very often. If you fold here, you need to stop RR AQo.

edit: oops, it's AQs. My comments still stand if you're reraising wider than just AQs+, which you probably are.

[jk3a]

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There is no way in hell that a shove in Hand 1 is standard. Folding is more standard than shoving.

Hand 2 I think I get it in and it's much closer to a "I'm not considering folding."

Basically

Hand 1: I lean towards a fold

Hand 2: I lean towards a shove

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His range includes so many draws that folding the first hand is def. giving up EV in my opinion.

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No it doesn't.

People who limp call and pull this stuff have like two pair/sets/straight (nuts) or a ridiculously good draw that is basically ahead of AA anyway.

I'd like to know results because these uncreative limp callers don't play big draws like 2+2ers.

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Villain had 75s in hand 1. I have 54% equity against that hand fwiw.

[carrotsnake]

I lean towards fold hand 1, definately not shove, probably call, and shove safe turn, fold bad ones.

2 - Dunno why you either 3 bet or bet flop, but once you do both of those, commmmmmon [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img](though call isn't bad if your planning on calling no matter what comes)

[jk3a]

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I lean towards fold hand 1, definately not shove, probably call, and shove safe turn, fold bad ones.

2 - Dunno why you either 3 bet or bet flop, but once you do both of those, commmmmmon [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img](though call isn't bad if your planning on calling no matter what comes)

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The difference in EV between shoving now and waiting and having to fold sometimes on the turn can't be that great. By shoving the flop, we guarantee a +EV situation. Check/folding bad turns is obv. 0 EV.

[carrotsnake]

umm, the difference between the turn EV and flop is f'in huge ...

[pepper123]

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umm, the difference between the turn EV and flop is f'in huge ...

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do people just not read their own threads or what? i posted that 4 hours ago.

[djj6835]

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umm, the difference between the turn EV and flop is f'in huge ...

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Assuming villains still stacks off on the turn with a draw correct? If villain folds his draw on the turn then I would think there would be little difference.

edit: Actually if villain folds the turn it isn't even close. Shoving the flop would be much better.