A quick question for AC Peeps: Market failure

[kniper]

ty

[latefordinner]

[ QUOTE ]
And yet you often assert that every awful outcome of state socialism is from the state part and not the socialism part.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think state socialism has much in common with libertarian socialism at all and I have never once pointed towards positive outcomes in countries such as the former USSR or China as proving any point about socialism.** ACers on the other hand continually talk about the incredible things capitalism has given us.

**I do make a point about wellbeing outcomes in social democracies in another post, but only to talk about the specific assertion that wellbeing improves the closer a country gets to lasseiz-faire policies.

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To all,

so what’s the AC solution to private monopolies, cartels and such? Without a state the market operators would consolidate and that would prevent the markets to work in the most efficient way.

[/ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]
lol

[superleeds]

[ QUOTE ]
No; there is no such thing as "market failure." Market failure is the excuse that socialists trot out to explain why something that *they personally* want to see more of is not supplied in greater quantities by the market. There is no way, independent of the market itself, to look around the market and *objectively* claim that "there is not enough X being produced". If there really were not enough X being produced, i.e. demand outstrips supply, the profit for producing and supplying X would rise relative to other lines of production, and invite investment in producing and supplying X

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you expand on this a bit more, explain how the diamond market, for instance, has reached its current equilibrium.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To all,

so what’s the AC solution to private monopolies, cartels and such? Without a state the market operators would consolidate and that would prevent the markets to work in the most efficient way.

[/ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]
lol

[/ QUOTE ]

no kidding. 'the state' IS a friggin private monopoly/cartel and its big as hell AND inefficient as hell (which gives it the excuse to demand more funds so it can pretend to repair itself) lol

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys ever believe in market failure (assuming the government is not involved)? Ever ever? Please explain if so or if not with examples preferably (or MSPaint).

[/ QUOTE ]

No; there is no such thing as "market failure." Market failure is the excuse that socialists trot out to explain why something that *they personally* want to see more of is not supplied in greater quantities by the market. There is no way, independent of the market itself, to look around the market and *objectively* claim that "there is not enough X being produced". If there really were not enough X being produced, i.e. demand outstrips supply, the profit for producing and supplying X would rise relative to other lines of production, and invite investment in producing and supplying X.

A neat trick by governments, however, is to artificially restrict the supply of X, via things like licensure, regulation, taxation, etc. so that the demand really does exceed supply, prices are kept artificially high, but the supply is not allowed to increase in response to the price signals. The government then steps in and declares a "market failure", and uses this excuse to monopolize the provision of that good or service entirely. This is seen over and over again, for example in health care and health insurance. Another famous example is childcare. Make the hoops that you have to jump through to open a childcare business ridiculous, hence keep childcare artificially scarce and expensive so that most parents cannot afford it, and then declare the need for the state to provide daycare and such for parents.

It always helps when you are trying to engineer a "market failure" to make it a crime to supply the thing you want to make it look like is not being supplied.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO When are you going to write a book? (if you haven't already)

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And yet you often assert that every awful outcome of state socialism is from the state part and not the socialism part.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think state socialism has much in common with libertarian socialism at all

[/ QUOTE ]

And yet you insist that state capitalism has much in common with libertarian capitalism.

[ QUOTE ]
I have never once pointed towards positive outcomes in countries such as the former USSR or China as proving any point about socialism.

[/ QUOTE ]

Relevance? This has nothing to do with what I said. In fact, it's very nearly the opposite.

[ QUOTE ]
ACers on the other hand continually talk about the incredible things capitalism has given us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you keep trying to make out like you're different when you're doing the exact same things. Have you convinced yourself yet? You're sure not convincing me.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The history of environmental degradation and the destruction of natural capital and calling it a "profit" rather than a "loss" is one giant market failure which will become glaringly apparent to even the most myopic individuals over the next 50 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, this is exactly what I mean. Make sure that your monopoly courts refuse to recognize property rights that would avoid tragedies of the commons (since there can only be tragedies of the commons where there are commons) and outlaw legal actions that would act to internalize costs, and then get yahoos on the intarwebs to call it a "market failure."

[/ QUOTE ]

LMFAO

Your cracking me up more than usual tonight. I wish you would post more!

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
See, this is exactly what I mean. Make sure that your monopoly courts refuse to recognize property rights that would avoid tragedies of the commons (since there can only be tragedies of the commons where there are commons) and outlaw legal actions that would act to internalize costs, and then get yahoos on the intarwebs to call it a "market failure."

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry if I don't automatically accept your assertions that every awful outcome of state capitalism is from the state part and not the capitalism part.



[/ QUOTE ]

Give it time my son, you will.

[bills217]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The history of environmental degradation and the destruction of natural capital and calling it a "profit" rather than a "loss" is one giant market failure which will become glaringly apparent to even the most myopic individuals over the next 50 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, this is exactly what I mean. Make sure that your monopoly courts refuse to recognize property rights that would avoid tragedies of the commons (since there can only be tragedies of the commons where there are commons) and outlaw legal actions that would act to internalize costs, and then get yahoos on the intarwebs to call it a "market failure."

[/ QUOTE ]

BUT WHAT IF BILL GATES BUYS UP ALL THE LAND IN THE WORLD AND SYSTEMATICALLY DESTROYS IT?!?!?