screwplayed

[thrasher789]

[ QUOTE ]

fwiw, if I was the villian, and I'm close to 26/17, I will have TT beat here about 100% of the time.

Seeing as the villian is not me, and I play in the same games as the OP, I'm never folding this.

Just wanted to point out that against a good player, you are done.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree, I think plenty of good players at 26/17 would make this play often enough to make it +ev to call them down fairly consistently.

[Absolution]

If I took this line it means I had A4s, 33 or 44 pre-flop and thought you would spew on the flop, but then you just called so I went for the screwplay.

[thrasher789]

[ QUOTE ]
If I took this line it means I had A4s, 33 or 44 pre-flop and thought you would spew on the flop, but then you just called so I went for the screwplay.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree more now than I did when I made my previous post becuase I completly failed to notice it was blind vs. blind, I can't imagine you being good in this spot anymore but if the villain plays werid you might go for the call down.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
TheHip clearly thinks the turn decision is between fold and call, while Nina thinks it is between call and 3 bet. I side with Nina and think that if TheHip finds this a decision that's closer to a fold than a 3 bet with an overpair on a paired board in a blind battle against a guy described as potentially "spewy", then he is probably erring on the folding side in lots of other spots that I would think are mistakes. Hence, I think he probably gets bluffed a lot.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]


Death donkey.


Note I said I would never fold this online, ever.

All I'm saying is, if a good player takes this line, you are losing a lot more than you are winning.

I don't advocate folding anywhere, I just pointed out if I take this line against you, you "should" fold the turn, because you have 2 outs.

3 betting a good player here is such a horrible play.

[danzasmack]

It is FAR from as bad as you're making it seem.

I will c/r a hand like 88 here sometimes if i think it will get me 3-bet on my terms for showdown. Because a lot of times i get popped on the turn here by a hand like AJ because they have now picked up a 5 for outs.

His flop donk is suspect but again it's the same thing - getting bets in on YOUR terms. Plus donking a hand like 88/77 will let you b/3bet a lot more often.

[milesdyson]

it is a weird board because Ax has a gutshot and everyone involved knows it. i just don't see why he'd try to sexy when so much of your hand range is going to take a free one with at least 4 outs. so really i think he either has something that doesn't care like A5 A4 44/33/22 or maybe even AA HIMSELF. or....... he has something dumb with some unknown number of outs. maybe like A3s 77 or whatever. i feel against this kind of range you should just call down. because maybe he'll fold his worst made hands to a reraise but put you on AK/AQ and bet the river for you.

DD- i thought that's what you meant, but i thought maybe you meant he must see so many bluffs that its a factor in his calldown decision here. IE he sees like 87s here and doesn't want to 3-bet the guy off his bluff. also i just want to comment that i play with thehip and he doesn't err on the side of folding. he just might err on the side of calling down too early, which i do as well.

[Apanage]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The hip...you dont think this is him making a play with a wide range enough to be a call?

[/ QUOTE ]

i realize that I'm saying two things.


1. I'm never folding to this play online.

2. If I make this play on you, you have 2 outs every time.

But no, I never fold here, unless the river brings an A, or the wheel gets there, then I think you can't call.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I`m relating to my own play.
This is so true that it is almost spooky.
But apparently other players thinks it is a good thing to screwplay this without beating TT.

And I agree that a 3-bet is a horrible play in all but the most aggressive games.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
it is a weird board because Ax has a gutshot and everyone involved knows it. i just don't see why he'd try to sexy when so much of your hand range is going to take a free one with at least 4 outs. so really i think he either has something that doesn't care like A5 A4 44/33/22 or maybe even AA HIMSELF. or....... he has something dumb with some unknown number of outs. maybe like A3s 77 or whatever. i feel against this kind of range you should just call down. because maybe he'll fold his worst made hands to a reraise but put you on AK/AQ and bet the river for you.

DD- i thought that's what you meant, but i thought maybe you meant he must see so many bluffs that its a factor in his calldown decision here. IE he sees like 87s here and doesn't want to 3-bet the guy off his bluff. also i just want to comment that i play with thehip and he doesn't err on the side of folding. he just might err on the side of calling down too early, which i do as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah TheHip is a pay-off master. Everyday I talk to him on the phone and all I hear is his non-stop whinning about how he calls down too much, never folds enough, yadda yadda yadda. All these complaints about the leaks he thinks he has but the truth is I dont remember the last time TheHip had a losing month, and believe me, if he had a losing month I would have to hear about it(Thehip = crybaby pussy). So this is what I have concluded: If youre making money nearly every month you play this game, yet you think youre calling down too much or have some other huge leak, chances are youre wrong.

I think its pretty funny how out of hand this thread got once TheHip mentioned the idea that folding TT to his turn check/raise would be the correct play. He was only trying to illustrate why he is against a turn 3bet. It seems a few people misunderstood what TheHip was trying to say.

[danzasmack]

I think any thread gets out of hand when someone says that someone else "sucks at poker".

It's like telling a lady you don't want to go out with her, but instead of just saying no you call her fat. GL with her pretty friends. Morans.

[milesdyson]

i don't want to say folding vs. me is right because really this just isn't the type of board i'm ever going to do this on. that said, there are plenty of times where players should exploit my style by simply folding because i have the nuts like 98% of the time and the 2nd nuts 2% of the time. they don't do it.

$5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 6 players

Preflop: Hero is UTG with TWO CARDS
<font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#FF0000">MP 3-bets</font>, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.60 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#FF0000">MP bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#FF0000">MP 3-bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9.80 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#FF0000">MP bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>

MP continues to 3-bet his AA with 0% chance of beating me. people say "HE RAISED UTG NO WAI HE HAS A FOUR" but then they don't realize that i am checkraising the field twice when your hand is 100% transparent and SOMETIMES i feel like raising 4 of spades 3 of spades under the gun because its fun.