Angelo: Fastrolling

[RoundTower]

this is standard for good players who aren't [censored].

Also I am looking forward to Tommy's book more than I have ever looked forward to a poker book, but not really for articles like this.

[Tommy Angelo]

[ QUOTE ]
He didn't address the most important situation of all: when they announce a good hand you can't beat - i.e the angle-shooting situation. Dunno why.

[/ QUOTE ]

All1N,

There are parts of my book (one of them is called “fastfolding”) that have some text about mucking. The excerpt published in the 2+2 magazine called “Fastrolling” is on the topic of showing. That’s why I didn’t put anything in there about mucking.

Just in case you’re interested, here’s what I do in the situation you asked about.

At the showdown, I don’t muck my hand until I know I am beat. If someone declares a hand that beats mine, and there remains a greater than zero chance that my hand could be better than his, then I don’t muck. The only exception is if I am playing at Artichoke Joe’s. The rule there is that if a player declares a hand, say, “I have a pair of kings,” and I muck my hand before he exposes any cards, and he cannot produce a hand that is a pair of kings or better, then I win the pot. At that casino, I will fastfold anytime I hear someone declare a hand that beats mine. Anywhere else, I do what I suspect you do too, and hold on to my cards until I know I am beat.

Tommy

[jeffnc]

Don't get me wrong - I think the idea behind the article was a good one. I like the idea of addressing some of the metagame issues, and I think I'm not alone in wanting to be a gentleman at the table while still getting all the information and nuances from the game that I can. I just thought that if this topic was going to be discussed, it could have gotten a little deeper/better. I do appreciate him addressing it at all though, it's rare that authors/coaches do.

[Sparks]

2+2'ers love to pile on. It seems to be their nature.

I noticed as one, then another, then another commented on how Tommy's article was weak. It seems that when someone first comments on an article, others have a tendency to follow suit, I suspect because they are afraid of "not belonging" or something. It is yet another case on 2+2 of The Emperor's New Clothes.

Tommy, ignore the idiots on here. Your article nailed it. Your writing style is a pleasure to read, and the content is obviously from someone who has played a lot of cards -- and gets it. Nice job, can't wait to get your book. I hope the entire manuscript is a lot like this excerpt you provided.

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
I noticed as one, then another, then another commented on how Tommy's article was weak. It seems that when someone first comments on an article, others have a tendency to follow suit, I suspect because they are afraid of "not belonging" or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

And then, of course, there are those who just want to look cool by being "different" :-)

Several things seem perfectly clear to me:
1) the article topic was good
2) the article missed an opportunity to explain a number of things that it should have explained
3) everyone here is looking forward to the book regardless of the content of this article
4) some people really enjoy the opportunity to call people idiots when they disagree with them

[DockDD]

Reading this article made me want to read the book.

[Rant]

I fastroll until someone starts abusing it.

There is one player in my home game who does his best never to show his cards, trying to gain an advantage. I often make him show his cards or muck them.

For other players I will save them the embarrassment of showing everyone that I just owned them by quickly rolling over the nuts.

Like the rest of poker, this is a situational thing. I agree with Tommy that fastrolling should be the default. I stop agreeing when a decent player is trying to slow roll for an edge.

[SNOWBALL]

I have one response to people who won't show when I call
"show or muck"
poker is an information war. I want all the information, and I want to give out none.
If a player is a real big fish and I want to keep them happy, or if they're on my left, and I think being friends with them will get them to softplay me, then I make exceptions.

[MadScientist]

I like the style it was written and I like most everything else of Tommy's that I have read.

This was a bizarre choice! I think it will hurt sales.

Having said that, I agree with the spirit of most everything that was written.

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the style it was written and I like most everything else of Tommy's that I have read.

This was a bizarre choice! I think it will hurt sales.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to buy the book anyway, but interestingly this article made me more interested in buying the book because it's an interesting topic that you don't find in other poker books. I think Angelo writes about interesting things from an interesting perspective, and I also have reason to believe the other topics in the book will be covered better than this topic, based on other things of his I've read. I think it will be kind of book where every player will pick up some really good ideas, even if the quality of each section is not the nuts.