The Haves, Have Nots, & Have Lots - Reformulation of the Middle Class

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I brought up the kids thing in part because I know some DINKs (Double-Income No Kids HH) who are livin' the life with no kids. They could probably afford them but it would put a massive dent in their lifestyle.


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...not to mention the shatterproof, tinted, air-conditioned bubble baby carrier for the back of the golf cart. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[fish2plus2]

1) Have Lots w/ this exchange rate

2) Its important because $$ = freedom.

3) Definitely. Raising kids is expensive and I dont want to be a working slave regardless of how cute they are. I want to be able to travel, etc. I cant imagine having kids without making a ton of money.

4) I dont know about the USA, but in Thailand its a caste system ideology all the way. If you asked the Have Lots, "Are you better than poor people", I would imagine that an absurd number of Yes.

[James282]

1) Are you a Have Not, Have, Have Lots?
Have Lots I guess, though I don't live like it. I've rented and moved around for the last 3 years and while I've done some traveling and things like that my life is devoid of any of the 'big purchases(house, new car)' that many have spent big amounts of money on.

2) How important is this to you going-forward?

I mean, it's important to me to be responsible enough with my money and invest it wisely enough to at least maintain the wealth I have while still moving forward with my goals of getting married and starting a family probably in the next 5 years. I want my kids to never have to worry about money until they are graduating from college(if they decide to go there). I want them to graduate with no debt just like I did due to my parents extreme mentality of cutting corners on luxuries so they could provide this. That said, regardless of my wealth, I am definitely going to follow my parents lead by not giving my kids ANY discretionary income. They can do chores to earn it, or get a job, but I'm not going to be a parent who gives his kids 20 bucks to go out for a night or whatever. Looking back, this was easily the best money lesson my parents ever could have given me, and when I surprisingly came into some money I wasn't quick to spend it because I could appreciate the fact that I earned it.

3) Will this impact your decision to have a family, number of children?
I won't sweat having as many kids as I want as a result of money, I suppose it possibly could have influenced me if I had made less, but my parents raised 3 kids on about 100(when they started) to 175(current) and we lived a very comfortable lifestyle in a clean, safe, and relatively expensive suburb. I doubt I'd want more than 3 kids, so no I don't think money would have influenced things too much because even at the lower end of mine and my gf's perspective salaries we'd still be able to afford it.

4) Is your sense of what I wrote above true? Is this true only in expensive metropolitan areas?


I have no idea what people's aspirations are, but their actions tell me that aiming for the middle class is just fine by them. Tons of people I know get on career paths early that have a relatively low ceiling income wise, and I think that if they were so obsessed with being a have lots and lots they would have started off their lives on different tracks.

James

[fish2plus2]

One thing, when you dont have money, being rich might not seem like that big of a deal to you, but once you get alot of money, you DO NOT want to go back.

[bet2win]

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1) Are you a Have Not, Have, Have Lots?
2) How important is this to you going-forward?
3) Will this impact your decision to have a family, number of children?
4) Is your sense of what I wrote above true? Is this true only in expensive metropolitan areas?

-Al

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1. have lots
2. very, work sucks, money = freedom
3. no
4. Status Anxiety - Alain De Botton

[Arnfinn Madsen]

I think if you are a "have" and you are anxious about becoming "have lots" there is something wrong about your surroundings and/or your relationship to your surroundings. Becoming a "have lots" is not going to make you happy and your anxiety to disappear, the anxiety comes from you trying to live up to expectations from people around instead of pursuing what makes you happy. The solution is more a question of finding ways to increase your self-confidence so that you get tough enough to speak up against it than to get more money. You can be a "have not" and have a great happy life and raise wonderful children.

There is no gold at the end of the rainbow.

[pryor15]

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1) Are you a Have Not, Have, Have Lots?

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I'm an artist which puts me in the Have Nots, and by a decent margin

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2) How important is this to you going-forward?

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it'd be nice to be rid of the debt and have some sort of margin for error, but i've pretty gotten to the point where i don't mind scraping by. mostly, it doesn't bother me as much as it probably should, but i'm single and have no kids, so my expenses are low.

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3) Will this impact your decision to have a family, number of children?

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not as much as other factors, such as my dissatisfaction with the institution of marriage

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4) Is your sense of what I wrote above true? Is this true only in expensive metropolitan areas?


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that i'm not really qualified to answer, but i can see the argument for the middle class going by the wayside. in the meantime, i know a lot of people who would absolutely love to join it.

[turnipmonster]

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In Manhattan, 2 people can not live easily on $150k, much less an entire family.


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this is of course very subjective (and I happen to personally disagree), although I do think that most people have a hard time believing that their neighbors live on far less than they do. according to this wikipedia article, median household income for manhattan in 2000 was $47,030.

[turnipmonster]

1) Are you a Have Not, Have, Have Lots?

apparently a have lot

2) How important is this to you going-forward?

not really that important. I have gotten by on far less, and had a happy and fulfilling life.

3) Will this impact your decision to have a family, number of children?

no

4) Is your sense of what I wrote above true? Is this true only in expensive metropolitan areas?

no, but I'm not exposed to a ton of media in this regard (don't really watch tv or follow celeb gossip), so that probably has a lot to do with it. I am also friends with lots of have nots, who would be thrilled to make a middle class living doing what they do.

[El Diablo]

Al,

Good thread. Don't have time to really get into this topic right now, but this book is great and related to the topic in a lot of important ways:

http://www.amazon.com/Overspent-Amer.../dp/0060977582

The Overspent American: Why We Want What We Don't Need (Paperback)

All about consumerism and "keeping up with the Joneses" and how that all impacts the way many Americans live their lives.

Really great read.