20/40 Commerce - Playing Defense... with the 2nd nuts.

[spino1i]

Insert a push somewhere there, preferably on the turn. Your tricky play has him beleving you dont have that good of a hand so he could easily be value betting a weaker hand. 76 is equally likely to play like this as compared to QJ

[HP]

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TdJd?

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wat

[Kirkrrr]

I agree with most of what was said, which is why I posted the hand.
The thing that got to me in that time was that I couldn't put him on a set that checked TWICE on that board, even after diamonds starting hitting, then went crazy. It seemed exactly the way a bad player would play the nuts to me. Also, he is not thinking "I'm going to bet one-third pot as a blocking bet," he is thinking "Almost 3,000 is a big number, lets bet it." The x/x precision pot-sized bets that some of you guys take for granted online don't play so much of a role live, since a lot of players couldn't calculate the exact pot size if their life depended on it.

Anyway, I called, he showed 88, MHIG. Taking all things into consideration, 2nd nuts is a hand that I should have been trying to go to the felt with, so I agree with you guys there.

Far as the flop bet, i will bet there 90% of the time, this time I didn't b/c I really felt I am taking it down right there and then if I bet. I think it was El Diablo that mentioned in his Well thread that slowplaying is occasionally good to mix in at the higher levels as it's more rarely done there. Recently I have been, and I can honestly say that the results so far have been very good.

Kirk

[klownage]

This guy is obviously bad, easy shove on the river.

[AZK]

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Also, he is not thinking "I'm going to bet one-third pot as a blocking bet," he is thinking "Almost 3,000 is a big number, lets bet it." The x/x precision pot-sized bets that some of you guys take for granted online don't play so much of a role live, since a lot of players couldn't calculate the exact pot size if their life depended on it.

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This is really important. live players do not keep track of pot size and the money is more real when playing live than online, for htese two reasons and a variety of other reasons it's important to realize that bet sizing as a read live is somewhat pointless against bad players. Bad players are not thinking "am I good 33% of the time to call this? " They are thinking, wow, $3000 is a lot of money. Or is my hand worth $3000? While the 2nd statement can somewhat infer that they are thinking hmm 2:1, call. They aren't. If you told most players, even old regulars that are marginally winning grinders, that they'd have to make real big calls but they were in fact +ev, i bet most wouldn't on the river. Anyway, i just felt like commenting on this but it could be an entire thread by itself. Since I barely scratched the surface.


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I think it was El Diablo that mentioned in his Well thread that slowplaying is occasionally good to mix in at the higher levels as it's more rarely done there. Recently I have been, and I can honestly say that the results so far have been very good.

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I'm pretty sure this does not apply to the player you described in the hand. Against fish, there is no point in slowplaying.

[snakekilla88]

kirkrrr- Seems like slowplaying this flop is a bad idea. Tons of cards that can kill your action and I think you were lucky the board turned out to be so safe on turn/river. Find a better spot to mix it up?

This is just a megacooler if the donk woke up with JQ so you should be trying to build the pot and get all your chips in. Why would you feel the need to mix it up against the player you described?

[Lefort]

Anyone who's giving you any turn action is atleast calling the flop, thus I think this is a flop bet 100% of the time.

Yeah, I get it in on the river with a naked 7, nevermind the J as well. (Essentially its the same play assuming villain rarely ever has J7 and rake difference is insig.)

[BobboFitos]

raise riv no?

[adanthar]

you really have to take that flop 90% and make it 100%. with QJ, okay fine, you can maybe take a card off 10% of the time. with J7, no.

as played, yeah okay the turn is scary, but when he does that on the river you are good 100% of the time

[bigt439]

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Far as the flop bet, i will bet there 90% of the time, this time I didn't b/c I really felt I am taking it down right there and then if I bet.

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Any particular reason? (serious question)

Because if you don't have a specific read that would indicate that to be the case (e.g. some sick live tells) then this really is not a board where that statement would be true. This is such a great board to get actions from check calls and check raises.