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#21
04-03-2007, 01:56 AM
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Re: Anarchocapitalism = economic totalitarianism?
[ QUOTE ]
Labor creates value. [/ QUOTE ] Well, I don't adhere to the LTV, so I would have to disagree (I'm an Austrian on matters economic, but I also think that on a free market price will approach cost so I don't think the difference is that important). [ QUOTE ] Capitalists appropriate it from workers. [/ QUOTE ] What I said was meant in the context of individuals or groups who had attained their stuff in large part through the State. So I think, if tomorrow the US went anarchist, a lot of large businesses and pretty much all government operations should be turned over to the people who legitimately own them--the people who work them, because they are the true homesteaders. That said, I don't think that 'profit is theft', or that ALL situations in which someone sells their labor to another are inherently bad. So while I don't think labor creates value, I do think that on a free market wages will approach costs of production, and hence the very large $$$ made by CEOs and the like compared to others is a hint that the government intervenes heavily in our economy on behalf of the wealthy elites. [ QUOTE ] It sounds like you're a socialist (or producerist) and just don't know it. [/ QUOTE ] I try to avoid classifying myself as either a capitalist or a socialist since the terms mean such vastly different things to different people. I tend to prefer 'left-libertarian', 'agorist', or just plain ol 'anarchist'. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] 
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#22
04-03-2007, 02:37 AM
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Re: Anarchocapitalism = economic totalitarianism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A far more accurate picture of what ought to happen is that the people who have actually worked the land, who have actually homesteaded and who are the only ones with any real claim to ownership--the peasants, the farmers, the merchants, etc.--it is they who things belong to, not the king. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah dude. Labor creates value. Capitalists appropriate it from workers. It sounds like you're a socialist (or producerist) and just don't know it. [/ QUOTE ] Workers are capitalists...
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#23
04-03-2007, 03:17 AM
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Re: Anarchocapitalism = economic totalitarianism?
[ QUOTE ]
A far more accurate picture of what ought to happen is that the people who have actually worked the land, who have actually homesteaded and who are the only ones with any real claim to ownership--the peasants, the farmers, the merchants, etc.--it is they who things belong to, not the king. [ QUOTE ] Yeah dude. Labor creates value. Capitalists appropriate it from workers. It sounds like you're a socialist (or producerist) and just don't know it. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Workers are capitalists... [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Capitalists derive their income from the work of OTHER PEOPLE. Workers, well, they work. If your definition of capitalist doesn't include ownership of capital, then your definition sucks.
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#24
04-03-2007, 03:20 AM
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Re: Anarchocapitalism = economic totalitarianism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A far more accurate picture of what ought to happen is that the people who have actually worked the land, who have actually homesteaded and who are the only ones with any real claim to ownership--the peasants, the farmers, the merchants, etc.--it is they who things belong to, not the king. [ QUOTE ] Yeah dude. Labor creates value. Capitalists appropriate it from workers. It sounds like you're a socialist (or producerist) and just don't know it. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Workers are capitalists... [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Capitalists derive their income from the work of OTHER PEOPLE. Workers, well, they work. [/ QUOTE ] No, capitalists derive their income by exchanging goods and services. [ QUOTE ] If your definition of capitalist doesn't include ownership of capital, then your definition sucks. [/ QUOTE ] Capitalism: 1. A supporter of capitalism. Anyone who ever makes any kind of trade is a capitalist.
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#25
04-03-2007, 07:46 AM
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Re: Anarchocapitalism = economic totalitarianism?
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Capitalists derive their income from the work of OTHER PEOPLE. Workers, well, they work. [/ QUOTE ] "Workers" do both. They invest their paychecks in the market to become shareholders. Multi-tasking FTW!
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#26
04-03-2007, 11:51 AM
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Re: Anarchocapitalism = economic totalitarianism?
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So anarchocapitalism starts off with a redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, and a redistribution of land from landlord to tenant? [/ QUOTE ] It sounds like the answer is yes, no, maybe, or it depends, but I'm not sure which. [ QUOTE ] if tomorrow the US went anarchist, a lot of large businesses and pretty much all government operations should be turned over to the people who legitimately own them [/ QUOTE ] You're talking about corporations like Haliburton, right?
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#27
04-03-2007, 01:17 PM
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Re: Anarchocapitalism = economic totalitarianism?
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So anarchocapitalism starts off with a redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, and a redistribution of land from landlord to tenant? [/ QUOTE ] Lol no. I suggest you learn a little more about AC (plenty of posts here to search through) before you continue attempting to criticize it.
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#28
04-03-2007, 01:21 PM
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Re: Anarchocapitalism = economic totalitarianism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A far more accurate picture of what ought to happen is that the people who have actually worked the land, who have actually homesteaded and who are the only ones with any real claim to ownership--the peasants, the farmers, the merchants, etc.--it is they who things belong to, not the king. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah dude. Labor creates value. Capitalists appropriate it from workers. It sounds like you're a socialist (or producerist) and just don't know it. [/ QUOTE ] Labor doesn't necessarily create value. ie I can go outside and dig a 10ft hole in the ground. If anything, my labor only destroyed value. Capitalists do not appropriate anything. Thieves appropriate. Capitalists make mutually beneficial exchanges.
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#29
04-03-2007, 01:25 PM
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Re: Anarchocapitalism = economic totalitarianism?
[ QUOTE ]
If your definition of capitalist doesn't include ownership of capital, then your definition sucks. [/ QUOTE ] If your definition of capitalism doesn't include ownership of human and intellectual capital, then your definition sucks.
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#30
04-03-2007, 01:56 PM
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Re: Anarchocapitalism = economic totalitarianism?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So anarchocapitalism starts off with a redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, and a redistribution of land from landlord to tenant? [/ QUOTE ] Lol no. I suggest you learn a little more about AC (plenty of posts here to search through) before you continue attempting to criticize it. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry. I guess I was just confused because nietz said [ QUOTE ] A far more accurate picture of what ought to happen is that the people who have actually worked the land, who have actually homesteaded and who are the only ones with any real claim to ownership--the peasants, the farmers, the merchants, etc.--it is they who things belong to, not the king. [/ QUOTE ] Some guy named Rothbard - if I remember right - also said the same thing. However, since you know more about it, maybe you could tell us how it really works?
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