US Trade Representative seeks public comment on Antigua beef

[MiltonFriedman]

The US could buy off Antigua pretty cheaply if it were so inclined, but it won't do so.

Yes, a lot of Antiguans work for online gaming or rent offices/property to online gaming or at businesses which service online gaming. However, there are only about 65,000 people in the whole country. If the US decided to finish the airport and subsidize airline service, create some official call-center in Antigua .... maybe for the IRS, or otherwise commit to support of an alternative sector to online gaming, then Antigua could drop the complaint .... but the US won't do that.

[Jeff Oneye]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cliff's notes:

Persons may submit their comments either (i) electronically, to FR0701@ustr.eop.gov, Attn:
``Gambling and Betting Dispute (DS285)

Email this address and comment that the US should repeal the UIGEA to comply with the WTO ruling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sent a constructive email, everyone should do this.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks for making this suggestion. Also, I appreciate having this brought to our attention. I fired off an email as well, which I included below (I'm admittedly not that well-versed on the law, but I will spend time and energy on behalf of my poker hobby).

On another note, I think too many people here spend way too much time criticizing the PPA. From petty gripes about their CEO's awkward mannerisms on TV to allegations of "chronic incompetence," we find an endless barrage of criticisms. Is this really necessary? It's not like they have an easy battle to fight. This fight is relatively new; and they lack the entrenched organization, public support, and funds of their adversaries (e.g. FRC, NCALG). If you want to fault find, there are better targets. Personally, I'd rather invest my resources trying to do something more constructive. Before making another perfunctory criticism of the PPA, consider that the overwhelming public sentiment is probably accurately captured here: NCALG's web page

Jeffrey (email submitted below)


Greetings,


The US should repeal the UIGEA to comply with the WTO ruling. If we want to break down trade barriers we need to demonstrate a willingness to abide by our own recommendations. The status quo is unacceptable and rightly casts the US as hypocrites. We should be willing to support free trade even when certain interest groups find it inconvenient. A consistent support of free trade does not mean closing our markets to other countries wishing to compete with our domestic gaming industry. It is laughable hyprocrisy to claim compliance while affording domestic horseracing, state lotteries, and fantasy sports unimpeded and legal access to our markets. Demonizing foreign competitors who seek access to our markets does not make them criminals or boogeymen. However, it does reflect a worrisome trend of protectionism-the devil is in the details.

Jeffrey

[Uglyowl]

I like you e-mail Jeffrey.

From NCALG's web page

[ QUOTE ]
compulsive gambling typically seizes the lives of 1.5% to 2.5% of the adult population. That amounts to three to five times the number of people suffering from cancer.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a despicable comparison!

People die of cancer (564,000+ this year alone) and are no longer in the comparison I guess.

If you are in remission you don't count either. There are well over 10 million Americans who have been or are being treated for cancer in the United States.

This is insane they are insinuating that gambling addiction is more prevalent than cancer in the United States.

[tangled]

[ QUOTE ]
Antinua has poker, u.s. has poker (B&M). But the u.s. gov't is making it more difficult to access the Antigua poker because Antigua offers a more competitive product to u.s. customers (lower rake, more generous bonuses/comps, freerolls, etc), thus cutting off free trade and sending us to play u.s. B&M games.

Isn't this a valid argument for the WTO? Isn't this exactly what the WTO was set up for?

Or does it break down at a difference between online and B&M somewhere?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but I dont think Antigua winning in the WTO is the problem. They have already won the first round and as a smarter-than-me poster has said: Prohibition II turns a "homerun into a grandslam". The US is wrong and thumbing its nose at international law it helped to create. But what can the WTO or Antigua do about it? That 's the question.

[whitepotatoe]

[ QUOTE ]
I like you e-mail Jeffrey.

From NCALG's web page

[ QUOTE ]
compulsive gambling typically seizes the lives of 1.5% to 2.5% of the adult population. That amounts to three to five times the number of people suffering from cancer.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a despicable comparison!

People die of cancer (564,000+ this year alone) and are no longer in the comparison I guess.

If you are in remission you don't count either. There are well over 10 million Americans who have been or are being treated for cancer in the United States.

This is insane they are insinuating that gambling addiction is more prevalent than cancer in the United States.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fully agree. I find that statement particularly offensive and imagine that anyone who has personally dealt with and seen the effects of cancer would agree. Even if those numbers were true, a person's life is not "seized" by gambling like a cancer patient's life is seized by cancer. The attempt to make problem gambling sound worse than cancer is simply moronic.

[Cubswin]

[ QUOTE ]
including the multi-million dollar lobbyists at the PPA

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Their role is supposed to be a lobbying voice for poker players, and they collect millions of dollars for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are greatly overestimating the PPA's funds and resources at this point in time. As Berge has pointed out, there are limited resources and decisions have to be made as to where the available money would be best spent. While it would be nice to believe that the PPA has 2+ million on hand (125k X $20), the reality is there are significant acquisition and other overhead costs that defray this figure.

[MiltonFriedman]

Cubs,

The main point was this Notice/Comment opening.

However, you miss the side points I was making re the PPA. It is not a matter of whether they have $1,000,000 or more in their funding, but rather their lack of focus on substantive opportunities in this campaign.

The PPA needs to focus its efforts, both for the players and to bolster its own political visibility.

1. The cost of their screening the Federal Register EVERY DAY is minimal, but essential to getting notice of relevant regulatory matters. The PPA, anointed by CardPlayer and PartyPoker, emegged as THE funded lobbying organization, for better or for worse. I maintain it would be MUCH better if it paid attention to the issues affecting the online games its putative memebership plays ....

If it maintains a focus on creating a tax/regulate environment, it is simply providing a service to the Harrahs/MGMs, et cetera ... not to an open market for poker consumers. WHAT IS its goal, to aid CardPlayer/MGM/Harrahs to grab market share for the birck & mortar brands or to provide representation for poker players' choices in an open market ?

2. If for NO other reason, the WTO comment angle is certainly worth pursuing as a felxing of numbers. All it takes is an EMAIL from the PPA membership to make the so-called 'poker vote" heard after the election. A good turn-out (say 5,000 comments) for a Notice/comment would be noticed and could be cited to show poker lobbying has staying power through the next election.

Whether the PPA has $1,000,000 and 125,000 members or $125,000 and 1,000 memebers does not excuse missing a Notice in the Federal Register about online gambling issues.

My real PPA concern is that they will be similarly asleep or serving someone else's interests when poker players need them to notice the UIGE Act Rega come up for Notice/Comment.

[Neurotoxin]

Another fun fact is the idea that everyone in America who isn't a problem gambler is paying between $270 and $440 each due to theit drain on the economy. Thats about $100,000,000,000 a year if my math is correct. What's funny is in the NORC report in the "Kyl quick facts" it says the cost is only $5 billion a year. And that's for "imprisonment, divorce courts" etc. They just pull both numbers out of their asses im sure.

[autobet]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are greatly overestimating the PPA's funds and resources at this point in time. As Berge has pointed out, there are limited resources and decisions have to be made as to where the available money would be best spent. While it would be nice to believe that the PPA has 2+ million on hand (125k X $20), the reality is there are significant acquisition and other overhead costs that defray this figure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I joined through Party. I checked with the PPA. They told me I was a FREE member through Party.

So I joined for $40 as a paying member.

[Cubswin]

[ QUOTE ]
However, you miss the side points I was making re the PPA. It is not a matter of whether they have $1,000,000 or more in their funding, but rather their lack of focus on substantive opportunities in this campaign.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand your main point and agree that something could have been done. That being said, I also understand how something like that could have slipped through the crack. Many people here follow the day-to-day happenings and missed it as well. Did you know that this was on the agenda? Did you contact the PPA about this? This is truely a grassroots movement at this point in time and if we are to make any progress we need to bring these things up when they arise. Rather than looking for failures we need to insure they dont happen.

The point of my post was to clarify the misconception that everyone thinks the PPA has massive financial backing from the poker sites and tons of resources at its disposal. This is simply not the case. From my understanding they have a staff of 3 plus their contracted lobbyist whose job is to focus on federal issues. If something like this comes up and you think it might not be on the PPA's radar, let them know about it.