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#21
12-10-2006, 06:53 PM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] This is pretty gross. The bad part is the existing system though, not that they shut down people who exploit loopholes. [/ QUOTE ] So the system is bad, but trying to go outside the bad system is also bad? [/ QUOTE ] At the very least, the one is worse than the other. It's not like this guy had come up with a way to completely circumvent the law and restore free competition. He just found a naturally inefficient form of production that was favored by the regulatory system. Allowing that form of production to flourish might lower consumer prices, but there's no guarantee that it will increase total economic efficiency. In addition, whatever goals are served by the original system will be circumvented. I'm not defending cartels, but once the government decides to implement one, it shouldn't be surprising that they enforce it. [/ QUOTE ] It sounds like exactly what you're doing, to me at least. If cartels are bad, then how can trying to act outside them also be bad? I understand that the government is going to try and take action when the cartel members start squealing, but that doesn't make it right. [/ QUOTE ] I think this ordering should be unobjectionable to you: No drug laws > Effective prohibition of drugs > Formal prohibition of drugs, but drugs provided by murderous Colombian cartels and street gangs Likewise: Free competition > Gov't cartel > Exploitation of weird loophole. Conceivably, at least. If milk producers as a group came up with a way to hoodwink regulators and go about their normal business without interference, OK. Doing that would basically nullify the law. In this case, the entrepreneur is leveraging the law to make an inefficient method of milk production cheaper. That's not as obviously good. [/ QUOTE ] I have no problem with what he's doing. If someone can find a way around price controls, good for them. All the attempts by the government to close this "loophole" stink of corruption and mercantilist protectionism and the consumer is the one who gets bent over. 
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#22
12-10-2006, 09:25 PM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
I think this ordering should be unobjectionable to you: No drug laws > Effective prohibition of drugs > Formal prohibition of drugs, but drugs provided by murderous Colombian cartels and street gangs [/ QUOTE ] I for one object. A= Prohibition B= Colombian cartels and street gangs selling drugs on black market A by definition creates B, yet you say that A>B ?????????????? There's also the issue of whether or not it would be desirable to have zero drug usage. Don't worry, it's not like trying to stop people from doing something they enjoy is selfish or anything...
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#23
12-10-2006, 09:32 PM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
A is not "prohibition". A is "effective prohibition". "Effective" meaning cartels and gangs for whatever reason cannot create a black market. A and B are mutually exclusive.
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#24
12-11-2006, 12:14 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
A is not "prohibition". A is "effective prohibition" . "Effective" meaning cartels and gangs for whatever reason cannot create a black market. A and B are mutually exclusive. [/ QUOTE ] And if pigs could fly... Christ, if we're just going to go off into fantasy land, I'm sure we can dream up even cooler inventions than "effective prohibition." Besides, Bobman believes that effective prohibition> ineffective prohibition, presumably because he doesn't use drugs and is too inconsiderate to think about the people who actually do enjoy using them. Seriously, you're an [censored] if you want to outlaw something that others derive altruistic pleasure from. This isn't meant as a personal attack on anyone, I'm just being blunt.
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#26
12-11-2006, 12:55 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A is not "prohibition". A is "effective prohibition" . "Effective" meaning cartels and gangs for whatever reason cannot create a black market. A and B are mutually exclusive. [/ QUOTE ] And if pigs could fly... Christ, if we're just going to go off into fantasy land, I'm sure we can dream up even cooler inventions than "effective prohibition." Besides, Bobman believes that effective prohibition> ineffective prohibition, presumably because he doesn't use drugs and is too inconsiderate to think about the people who actually do enjoy using them. Seriously, you're an [censored] if you want to outlaw something that others derive altruistic pleasure from. This isn't meant as a personal attack on anyone, I'm just being blunt. [/ QUOTE ] It's not an insane fantasy, because even if drugs are unprohibitable, it seems that the feds have no problem imposing a specific production model on the milk industry. There are no underground milk rings importing cheap Mexican dairy and selling it on the streets. My point was merely that the way a restriction is evaded can be worse than the restriction itself. I may be too inconsiderate to understand the situation, but am I really to believe that consumption of cocaine really justifies the destabilization of Colombia and other Latin American governments, the massive diversion of resources into drug production and transport, and the absurd number of murders that are connected with the drug trade, as well as the very high street prices that drive thousands upon thousands of users into utter destitution? It seems improbable.
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#27
12-11-2006, 01:01 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
What's the street price of DDT these days, pvn?
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#28
12-11-2006, 01:05 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
What's the street price of DDT these days, pvn? [/ QUOTE ] psychoactive drugs != agricultural drugs, especially in regard to prohibition. "effective prohibition" of the former is impossible. also btw the whole prohibition of DDT thing has worked wonders, basically leading to the deaths of thousands upon thousands of Africans due to malaria.
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#29
12-11-2006, 01:06 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
but am I really to believe that consumption of alcohol really justifies the destabilization of 1920's era Chicago and other metropolitan areas, the massive diversion of resources into alcohol production and transport, and the absurd number of murders that are connected with the alcohol trade, as well as the very high street prices that drive thousands upon thousands of drinkers into utter destitution? [/ QUOTE ] FYP
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#30
12-11-2006, 01:10 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] but am I really to believe that consumption of alcohol really justifies the destabilization of 1920's era Chicago and other metropolitan areas, the massive diversion of resources into alcohol production and transport, and the absurd number of murders that are connected with the alcohol trade, as well as the very high street prices that drive thousands upon thousands of drinkers into utter destitution? [/ QUOTE ] FYP [/ QUOTE ] Uhh, do you actually believe that was a great bargain for society?
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