Yanks offer job to Girardi

[Mondogarage]

Girardi doesn't really have a big enough sample size as a manager to say what he's good at. He did get good results with a really young team, and the Yankees are likely to get at least a bit younger next year. Maybe this is a sign the Yankees are looking at doing things such as not picking up Abreu's option, I dunno.

That said, a lot of those young pitchers suffered severe falloffs and/or injuries this year, notably, Josh Johnson and Scott Olson. How much of that is attributable to overwork in 2006?

Josh Johnson threw 157 innings as a 22 year old in 2006.
Scott Olson threw 180 innings as a 22 year old in 2006.
Ricky Nolasco threw 140 innings as a 23 year old in 2006.

Those numbers seem high to me for their ages. I'm not sure whether any of them spent any time in the minors in 2006, but I'm pretty sure those are probably the highest figures any of them had thrown in their careers. I don't have pitch counts for those games -- just tossing out the numbers I have.

Also, it's impossible to know for certain what would have happened to those pitchers this year if Girardi were managing them this year. But if I were counting on the young arms the Yankees seem to be going towards, I'd be concerned. I'd be even more concerned if I had to force my incoming manager to accept something like the Joba rules as a condition of his employment, because that's not exactly the greatest initial vote of confidence in that person's managerial ability.

[CharlieDontSurf]

[ QUOTE ]
Girardi doesn't really have a big enough sample size as a manager to say what he's good at. He did get good results with a really young team, and the Yankees are likely to get at least a bit younger next year. Maybe this is a sign the Yankees are looking at doing things such as not picking up Abreu's option, I dunno.

That said, a lot of those young pitchers suffered severe falloffs and/or injuries this year, notably, Josh Johnson and Scott Olson. How much of that is attributable to overwork in 2006?

Josh Johnson threw 157 innings as a 22 year old in 2006.
Scott Olson threw 180 innings as a 22 year old in 2006.
Ricky Nolasco threw 140 innings as a 23 year old in 2006.

Those numbers seem high to me for their ages. I'm not sure whether any of them spent any time in the minors in 2006, but I'm pretty sure those are probably the highest figures any of them had thrown in their careers. I don't have pitch counts for those games -- just tossing out the numbers I have.

Also, it's impossible to know for certain what would have happened to those pitchers this year if Girardi were managing them this year. But if I were counting on the young arms the Yankees seem to be going towards, I'd be concerned. I'd be even more concerned if I had to force my incoming manager to accept something like the Joba rules as a condition of his employment, because that's not exactly the greatest initial vote of confidence in that person's managerial ability.

[/ QUOTE ]

They have already said they are picking up his option.
Oh and it was 1 season and Joe's first. Even great managers make mistakes and learn from then. I'm sure given all the talk about him overworking his pitchers he has realized his mistake. Torre never learned from his habit of destroying our relievers

[Franchise 60]

[ QUOTE ]
Josh Johnson threw 157 innings as a 22 year old in 2006.
Scott Olson threw 180 innings as a 22 year old in 2006.
Ricky Nolasco threw 140 innings as a 23 year old in 2006.


[/ QUOTE ]

I understand the critics on him pitching those guys to much, but if thats who he is given in his rotation what is he supposed to do? If Josh Johnson is one of his top 3 pitchers in his rotation and he is trying to win games its hard to kill him for pitching him 157 innings.

If Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba pitch 150-175 innings next year will fellow Yankee fans be angry at Girardi? Because honestly we can't win if those guys don't throw solid innings. I'm not saying throw these guys for 200 innings, but they have to give the team solid innings for the Yanks to compete for a playoff berth.

[Franchise 60]

You can argue whether Girardi is good with pitching I guess, but it is his specialty, and I'd assume one of the major reasons the Yankees offered him the job was because they believed he would help improve the pitching staff.

He obviously doesn't have enough experience as a Manager to say "he is great with pitchers," and if I said that then I guess I was wrong, but you can't say its not his specialty as a coach.

[Mondogarage]

Actually, the one one of those I would have taken a handling issue with would have been Scott Olson's innings, because 180 is simply too many for a 22 year old - and not jeapordize his future career. But I don't really blame Girardi for that nearly as much as I blame Marlins ownership.

Obviously, even if Girardi overthrew them, there's no reason he couldn't learn from the experience. I wish him well -- I always liked him as a Rockie.

If Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba pitch 150-170 innings next year, and pitch counts are kept reasonable, I don't see any problems. If he's letting Kennedy throw 120 pitches per start, then you've got problems.

If you're management, given what we know, I think you have to assemble the best bullpen possible and limit those guys to 105 pitches per start, whether that means they make it 8 innings or 5. A couple of quality long guys will be key.

[Triumph36]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Josh Johnson threw 157 innings as a 22 year old in 2006.
Scott Olson threw 180 innings as a 22 year old in 2006.
Ricky Nolasco threw 140 innings as a 23 year old in 2006.


[/ QUOTE ]

I understand the critics on him pitching those guys to much, but if thats who he is given in his rotation what is he supposed to do? If Josh Johnson is one of his top 3 pitchers in his rotation and he is trying to win games its hard to kill him for pitching him 157 innings.

If Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba pitch 150-175 innings next year will fellow Yankee fans be angry at Girardi? Because honestly we can't win if those guys don't throw solid innings. I'm not saying throw these guys for 200 innings, but they have to give the team solid innings for the Yanks to compete for a playoff berth.

[/ QUOTE ]

the Yankees will have strict innings counts with all three pitchers. if Girardi disobeys them, he will be fired.

[Mondogarage]

[ QUOTE ]
the Yankees will have strict innings counts with all three pitchers. if Girardi disobeys them, he will be fired.

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds reasonable.

Now here's a hypothetical -- if by, say, August 15th, the Yankees are 6-7 games out in the division, and 3-4 games out in the wild card race, and any of those guys are bumping up against those limits (or will exceed them at current pace), and you're Cashman or Hank, do you tell Girardi to screw the limits, win now? Because a WS title is the only way to measure success in the Bronx?

Or do you fire Girardi for missing the playoffs by two games, at the end of the season, when he kept to the innings/pitch count limits?

(All of this kinda assumes there's not a truly top flight FA-to-be rental out there next year, because there weren't any this year.)

In other words, do you give Girardi a free pass this year because of the pitchers' limits, or do you force him to disregard those same limits if its the only way to likely make the playoffs next year?

[prohornblower]

I think they should have went with Pena. Pena did well his first year in KC with garbage. I think he could do alot with the Yankees. Of course Girardi did the same with the Marlins, but Pena is older and maybe wiser and I just think it's sort of weird that Girardi will be managing guys he used to play with.

IMO.

[CharlieDontSurf]

Hank S's comments to the press seem to point to the free pass short of a total disaster for this year. aka be patient we're rebuilding...young players blah blah blah

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, do you give Girardi a free pass this year because of the pitchers' limits, or do you force him to disregard those same limits if its the only way to likely make the playoffs next year?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's pretty obvious that even if he is given artificial limits like innings on pitchers, he's still expected to win the World Series. It's the Yankees - it's not like they're going to have reasonable expectations.