Qana

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]

After what happened in Qana, Israelis generals should think two times before travelling to Europe. War crime is a serious offense.

This incident, two days after the arrival of US "smart bombs", may cost lifes of american citzens around the world.

Scenes like this is what terrorists are looking for to re-seed their evil.


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What exactly was the war crime? A rocket luanching position is a valid military target. Hezzbolla was using this position to attempt to kill and wound Isreali civilians. Those Lebonese civilians killed, occupied a position they knew was going to be bombed. In fact the Isrealis dropped leaflets telling those people to leave. I'd like to know why these people did not leave before I start assigning blame.

Stu

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]

What exactly was the war crime? A rocket luanching position is a valid military target. Hezzbolla was using this position to attempt to kill and wound Isreali civilians. Those Lebonese civilians killed, occupied a position they knew was going to be bombed. In fact the Isrealis dropped leaflets telling those people to leave. I'd like to know why these people did not leave before I start assigning blame.

Stu

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There is a reason that war crimes trials tend to last very long. They are allowed to attack the rocket launchers. They are however also responsible for attempting to spear civilians. Then you can start to discuss what knowledge they had, what knowledge they should have gathered. Then who gave the order and who should potentially not have executed it. Then what part of it was intent, and what could be seen as a crime even without intent. There is not many who can give a clear cut answer. I assume however that Israel took efforts to prevent civilian damage for political or other reasons, but was it sufficient? Was it sufficient at all levels? Only a few persons probably know.

[primetime32]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What exactly was the war crime? A rocket luanching position is a valid military target. Hezzbolla was using this position to attempt to kill and wound Isreali civilians. Those Lebonese civilians killed, occupied a position they knew was going to be bombed. In fact the Isrealis dropped leaflets telling those people to leave. I'd like to know why these people did not leave before I start assigning blame.

Stu

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a reason that war crimes trials tend to last very long. They are allowed to attack the rocket launchers. They are however also responsible for attempting to spear civilians. Then you can start to discuss what knowledge they had, what knowledge they should have gathered. Then who gave the order and who should potentially not have executed it. Then what part of it was intent, and what could be seen as a crime even without intent. There is not many who can give a clear cut answer. I assume however that Israel took efforts to prevent civilian damage for political or other reasons, but was it sufficient? Was it sufficient at all levels? Only a few persons probably know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Has anyone ever accused the israelis of being dumb? NO. Well then why would they intentionally target civlian children? Do they think it will get them better treatment from the UN or EU? Instead of reacting to the problem, think about the entire situation and analyze. And what makes more sense?

To me it makes more sense that hezbollah fired rockets from nearby locations in an effort to either prevent israel from firing back or if they did fire back they would kill innocent children and look bad. Hezbollah ain't stupid, they know exactly what they are doing.

Thank god the majoirty on this board and in this country understand the situation israel is in.

[ACPlayer]

You can use all the logic you want ... in some circles it (the whole Lebanon offensive) will be considered a war crime. Likely by many in Europe.

[Copernicus]

Since the last "Qana massacre" led to Israel accepting a cease fire, and since Israel repeatedly warned civilians to leave Qana due to impending attack, I wonder if HZB will be found to have overtly restricted these civilians from leaving an area that HZB ensured was a prime target by using it as a missile site?

[ACPlayer]

Eventually we will find it. This is the rubric being trotted out by the Israeli apologists, mostly without knowledge as pure conjecture.

It has nothing to do with the culpability in this incident.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
Eventually we will find it. This is the rubric being trotted out by the Israeli apologists, mostly without knowledge as pure conjecture.

It has nothing to do with the culpability in this incident.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hadnt seen that conjecture elsewhere. Any links or did you just hear/see it?

Of course it has everything to do with culpability if HZB held them hostage. It has little or nothing to do with Israeli culpability...that could only be claimed if somehow intent were proven...highly unlikely.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]
Since the last "Qana massacre" led to Israel accepting a cease fire, and since Israel repeatedly warned civilians to leave Qana due to impending attack, I wonder if HZB will be found to have overtly restricted these civilians from leaving an area that HZB ensured was a prime target by using it as a missile site?

[/ QUOTE ]

What probability do you assign to this being the case, and why do you believe that your conjecture would be profitable to entertain?

[Chris Alger]

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"Hezzbolla was using this position to attempt to kill and wound Isreali civilians. Those Lebonese civilians killed, occupied a position they knew was going to be bombed. In fact the Isrealis dropped leaflets telling those people to leave. I'd like to know why these people did not leave before I start assigning blame."

[/ QUOTE ]
Do a search on Lebanon-refugees-trapped and you'll get a pretty good idea why they might have been reluctant to leave: nowhere to go, no car, no gas, no safe roads, bridges blown up, little and possibly no food, money or medicine, aid stations in crisis, cabs charging $400 a ride, etc. Take into account that a number of Lebanese are too young, too old or too sick to endure something like this and contrast it to the inviting appearance of a concrete basement in a large building. Consider the possibility of even harder cases: this particular group of civilians included 15 mentally retarded children, according to a report in the Australian Herald Sun, all dead now.

A "rocket luanching position?" Where's the evidence of that? "To date, Israel has not presented any evidence to show that Hezbollah was present in or around the building that was struck at the time of the attack." Human Rights Watch, 7/30/06. That clip they keep running on Fox News comes from three days before the attack, and no one seems to be sure that it's even the same building.

What's more likely is that Israel's "military" campaign is similar to the one Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon described to the BBC: <ul type="square">He said that in order to prevent casualties among Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops moved in. He added that Israel had given the civilians of southern Lebanon ample time to quit the area and therefore anyone still remaining there could be considered a Hezbollah supporter. "All those now in south Lebanon are terrorists who are related in some way to Hezbollah," Mr Ramon said.[/list]That's as good an explanation for Qana as you're likely to see: they had to get those disabled children terrorists while they slept.

[Sniper]

Chris, last week the UN Security Council held a couple of sessions on "Children and armed conflict"... you might find the transcripts interesting...