|
|
#21
07-19-2007, 11:10 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: KK raise UTG, reraised and called.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think Matt Suspect's range here should be KK+. Call for set value. [/ QUOTE ] Discuss [/ QUOTE ] IMO mattsuspect should never reraise anything there. [/ QUOTE ] Really? Money's pretty deep, and you'd be giving anyone behind you with a pocket pair tasty odds to play for a set. Edit: I think Matt's raise is too small, whatever he's got. 
|
|
#22
07-19-2007, 11:49 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: KK raise UTG, reraised and called.
I pushed and the others folded. Matt said he folded QQ. I guess the small raise might be how some people would play QQ (or AA) Felt I had to 4-bet 3-way, rather than play against 2 people with 2 or 3 outs 3 times. Thought I was ahead, but it is tricky whether either player could have AA based on the action.
|
|
#23
07-19-2007, 12:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: KK raise UTG, reraised and called.
[ QUOTE ]
I pushed and the others folded. Matt said he folded QQ. I guess the small raise might be how some people would play QQ (or AA) Felt I had to 4-bet 3-way, rather than play against 2 people with 2 or 3 outs 3 times. Thought I was ahead, but it is tricky whether either player could have AA based on the action. [/ QUOTE ] Honestly though what are you ever flatting here pre-flop, other than maybe KK or AA? I think in general you're better off shoving with KK here because are you really gonna flat AK/AQ here? No, you're either gonna fold or shove, so why would you want to flat with KK here? You may have allowed him to get away from QQ, but flatting here and playing a flop is really bad too because you're OOP, if an Ace comes he could take it from you, and is he really gonna stack off post-flop anyway after you flat a re-raise from UTG which looks uber scary?
|
|
#24
07-19-2007, 12:41 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: KK raise UTG, reraised and called.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I pushed and the others folded. Matt said he folded QQ. I guess the small raise might be how some people would play QQ (or AA) Felt I had to 4-bet 3-way, rather than play against 2 people with 2 or 3 outs 3 times. Thought I was ahead, but it is tricky whether either player could have AA based on the action. [/ QUOTE ] Honestly though what are you ever flatting here pre-flop, other than maybe KK or AA? I think in general you're better off shoving with KK here because are you really gonna flat AK/AQ here? No, you're either gonna fold or shove, so why would you want to flat with KK here? You may have allowed him to get away from QQ, but flatting here and playing a flop is really bad too because you're OOP, if an Ace comes he could take it from you, and is he really gonna stack off post-flop anyway after you flat a re-raise from UTG which looks uber scary? [/ QUOTE ] ??? I'm flatting 22+, all of which I'm raising utg here. EDIT: lots of suited connectors too
|
|
#25
07-19-2007, 01:32 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: KK raise UTG, reraised and called.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I pushed and the others folded. Matt said he folded QQ. I guess the small raise might be how some people would play QQ (or AA) Felt I had to 4-bet 3-way, rather than play against 2 people with 2 or 3 outs 3 times. Thought I was ahead, but it is tricky whether either player could have AA based on the action. [/ QUOTE ] Honestly though what are you ever flatting here pre-flop, other than maybe KK or AA? I think in general you're better off shoving with KK here because are you really gonna flat AK/AQ here? No, you're either gonna fold or shove, so why would you want to flat with KK here? You may have allowed him to get away from QQ, but flatting here and playing a flop is really bad too because you're OOP, if an Ace comes he could take it from you, and is he really gonna stack off post-flop anyway after you flat a re-raise from UTG which looks uber scary? [/ QUOTE ] ??? I'm flatting 22+, all of which I'm raising utg here. EDIT: lots of suited connectors too [/ QUOTE ] Okay, so if your UTG range is that wide, Matt should be raising a lot more than KK+? EDIT: My point is you can't argue that your range is tight and thus Matt's range is uber-tight here, and then turn around and say calling KK isn't obvious what you have, because if you're raising a lot lighter here Matt should be re-raising a lot lighter than KK+ here (at least QQ we know for sure). So you have to choose one or the other, your range is either wider here or it's tight, thus why I asked betgo what his typical UTG opening range is, and if Matt knows this.
|
|
#26
07-19-2007, 01:38 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: KK raise UTG, reraised and called.
I agree that a flat call looks a lot more scary than a push. AK/AQ/JJ/TT and maybe QQ push in this spot, AA/KK call with a plan to push the flop. And those hands are going to be OOP, which also wants a push PF. If we think villian is smart, he will know this, so I like the push so our range looks worse than it is.
|
|
#27
07-19-2007, 01:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: KK raise UTG, reraised and called.
I flat call and weak lead all flops, intending to fold to any action when an ace flops, but intenting to commit all chips is anything else flops.
sheets
|
|
#28
07-19-2007, 01:45 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: KK raise UTG, reraised and called.
Well yea I guess it depends on what Matt thinks about betgo (or whoever the utg raiser could be). But even if our opening range is wide, I think calling Matt's reraise is better. Pushing narrows our range just as much as if I was opening a tight range and then pushed. Calling disguises my hand really well since since I could have anywhere from 78s or 22 to AA. But if I push, my range becomes extremely narrow, giving Matt an easy decision.
|
|
#29
07-19-2007, 11:41 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: KK raise UTG, reraised and called.
[ QUOTE ]
Well yea I guess it depends on what Matt thinks about betgo (or whoever the utg raiser could be). But even if our opening range is wide, I think calling Matt's reraise is better. Pushing narrows our range just as much as if I was opening a tight range and then pushed. Calling disguises my hand really well since since I could have anywhere from 78s or 22 to AA. But if I push, my range becomes extremely narrow, giving Matt an easy decision. [/ QUOTE ] Okay well if you have a wide range then I think you can make an argument for calling. But it's assumed it's not that wide from the OP.
|
|
#30
07-20-2007, 12:56 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: KK raise UTG, reraised and called.
[ QUOTE ]
Well yea I guess it depends on what Matt thinks about betgo (or whoever the utg raiser could be). But even if our opening range is wide, I think calling Matt's reraise is better. Pushing narrows our range just as much as if I was opening a tight range and then pushed. Calling disguises my hand really well since since I could have anywhere from 78s or 22 to AA. But if I push, my range becomes extremely narrow, giving Matt an easy decision. [/ QUOTE ] Normally I would agree with you 100% and it would be my preferred line. However, thats the thinking I usually use on donks. Against thinking players I think you need to be a little more creative. A push looks like a hand that doesnt want a call that much, or does better with 5 cards, like AK/AQ. Only AA/KK would risk a flop putting that much of your stack in. The key here is that a thinking player is going to realize how much you're putting in, and unless he thinks you're a total donk, is going to know you're not putting in that much without the goods.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
