hell

[revots33]

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The eternal BBQ is a non-Biblical concept from the Greeks. When interpreting any ancient writings, a proper understanding of cultural context and original sources (rather than mere translations) is essential.

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Phew, glad to hear it! Guess I can sleep easy now. I only wish those priests and nuns who scared me to death as a child knew as much as you do!

[Skidoo]

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The eternal BBQ is a non-Biblical concept from the Greeks. When interpreting any ancient writings, a proper understanding of cultural context and original sources (rather than mere translations) is essential.

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Phew, glad to hear it! Guess I can sleep easy now. I only wish those priests and nuns who scared me to death as a child knew as much as you do!

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Non sequitur. Western culture adopted much from the Greek worldview.

So you can go back to believing everything they told you.

[bunny]

One priest I have spoken to in depth about this (or related anyhow) is that the most important commandment is to love God. Doing good things is not valued as highly by God. It relies on shrugging and saying "Who am I to argue? God knows best"

Personally, I could never reconcile hell with a benevolent God. It doesnt make any sense to me and the alternatives seemed to be drop belief in hell or drop a benevolent god (at least benevolent by human standards, which is all I can go by). It is possible that there is some overarching unknowable-to-humans reason why hell is the benevolent thing to do (perhaps its necessary for justice or something?) but if it is indeed unknowable, then there will never be a reason to accept it - you'll have to adopt it as an article of faith with the rest of them.

[dknightx]

here is my personal understanding of hell:

1. eternal? well although the bible references eternal suffering and seperation from God (2 Thes. 1:8-10, Jude 1:7, Luke 16:24, Matt. 25:30,46), i don't think ENTERNAL is to be taken literally. The reason is because one day God will destroy Satan, and then what happens to the people in hell? Maybe they are destroyed too, or maybe something else, i don't know.
2. suffering? well, it will be suffering, but a large part of that is because the absence of God (insert joke here). The gnashing of teeth, and the cries, etc, are because they are apart from God.
3. punishment? yes, there will be punishment, but the key here is that it will be BASED on their deeds as well as propotional to their deeds. See Acts 17:30-31,Rom. 2:1-11, Rev. 20:11-15 and Luke 12:47-49, Matt. 10:15, Matt. 11:24, Rev. 20:12-13. So whats my point ... basically that hell will be different for everyone. It could just be isolation, and time for you to reflect by yourself, dont really know.

so there you have it, lots of i dont knows, but mostly because there is not A LOT of scripture about hell. also, i should point out that i am in the belief that God will rightly judge everyone, and that exceptions are often made for those who have failed to accept Jesus Christ but have extenuating circumstances (youth, not having heard the Gospel, mental illness, etc.).

[madnak]

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Absurd? Well, that's your opinion.

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An opinion with plenty of support.

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Chapter and verse, if you don't mind. Not links.

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I shouldn't take the bait, but some examples.

"If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire." Matt. 18:8

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;" Matt. 25:41 (also "eternal punishment" in verse 46)

"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire" Mark 9:43

"These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power" 2 Thess. 1:9

"just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." Jude 7 (and while we're on the subject, Matt. 11:22 helpfully clarified the severity of the punishment)

"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Rev. 20:10

Bear in mind that this list is by no means complete. There are dozens of such references. This should be sufficient.

Now, when you criticized translations and I went to the original language, you turned around and asked for chapter and verse. Now that I've provided that, I assume your first reaction will be to go back and criticize translation again.

I'm not going to bother getting into that huge debate, particularly since you didn't seem to care when I mentioned it before. I will say that the eternal life of heaven, the eternal reign of God, and his eternal justice are all described using the same words, which are the words used to represent "eternity" in Greek. That virtually all translations, Greek dictionaries, and contextual clues agree, that there's no indication the limited use of the term to describe "only" ages rather than eternity applies in any of these cases (much less all of them), that the occurences are frequently surrounded with vivid descriptions of the extreme severity of hell, and that the entirety of Christian religion would be upturned if God were temporal rather than eternal also serve to make it clear that the "eternal BBQ" is actually the most direct translation of the original texts (and historical evidence also suggests that this was the common interpretation from at least the time Biblical canon was selected in the first place).

Other interpretations indicative of hyperbole or metaphor may have existed from the start, but they were largely removed from any conception that is compatible with Christianity as we know it. The Gnostics, for example, believed that the God of the Bible was the creator of the Earth (the Demiurge), but many sects also believe he was the ultimate symbol of evil. That is one interpretation of God even I can accept.

Christianity is about eternal hell.

[madnak]

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there is not A LOT of scripture about hell

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And what scripture there is strictly emphasizes how awful the suffering will be and how it's eternal. Not to be taken literally? Perhaps. Please explain to me why Jesus needs to be a hyperbolic blowhard. Does he just want to scare people by grossly exaggerating the actuality of hell? And given that he refers to heaven in exactly the same terms, are we to take such a contingent interpretation there, as well?

[dknightx]

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there is not A LOT of scripture about hell

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And what scripture there is strictly emphasizes how awful the suffering will be and how it's eternal. Not to be taken literally? Perhaps. Please explain to me why Jesus needs to be a hyperbolic blowhard. Does he just want to scare people by grossly exaggerating the actuality of hell? And given that he refers to heaven in exactly the same terms, are we to take such a contingent interpretation there, as well?

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well, what word would you use for a very long, indefinite time period? eternal seems appropriate for both saying FOREVER, and FOREVER - x. Also the idea of hell (ie seperation from God) is definitely FOREVER for satan (as you see in the revelations verse you postd). Like i said, once satan is overthrown, im not sure what happens to humans.

[madnak]

Well, I suppose if you're going to stick to the Bible, it's best if you take an interpretation that doesn't include eternal hell. Still, I see it as an inaccurate and arbitrary reading, that also happens to be very convenient.

[Skidoo]

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I will say that the eternal life of heaven, the eternal reign of God, and his eternal justice are all described using the same words, which are the words used to represent "eternity" in Greek.

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I'll get to your citations. However, first this one point. Given that the wages of sin is death, if someone so dies (goes completely extinct, gone, finito), how long does that punishment last? That's right, for eternity. And fire is how they disposed of the bodies. No eternal barbecues here.

As for translations (and out of context interpretations), of course that's what I'm going to criticize. That's the whole point.

[madnak]

But it's the fire that's eternal in many passages, not the death.