tells

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a big tell when someone is going to fold is if they have their cards in their hands and look like they are ready to fold out of turn. I think betting patterns are better tells for us internet guys cuz we know them so well by now that they are second nature, great thread, i want to see responses

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In Caro's book, is feigning to fold out of turn not a sign of a huge hand? But yeah betting patterns ftw. Money talks.

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Sorry for the double post. I just wanted to respond to this one. Caro's book does cover this its true, but only if they are acting. You just have to know how to read players to make that decision.

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Most players today at low stakes live aren't aware enough to act. So many players just play their hands. I saw one guy read some script for work as he played cards, he was 100% transparent.

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To the contrary, I find that there are tons of actors at low stakes live (e.g., $200NL). Was playing a few weeks ago. I raise preflop with KK. Get a few callers. Flop is JJx. I continuation bet. Some people fold around to dude at other end of table, who furrows his brow, takes a long looking at the board, then reluctantly calls (check-call). Instantly put him on a J. Turn is blank and he is first to act. He makes a pained check. I check behind. River card is meaningless to me. He continues with the pained expressions, then fires out a pot-sized bet. I'm laughing to myself as I muck KK. Of course he shows Jack. Silly silly silly. I love these people. Whenever their looks/appearances do not match their actions, sure sign that something is awry.

[22pajo]

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He makes a pained check. I check behind. River card is meaningless to me. He continues with the pained expressions, then fires out a pot-sized bet.

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lol, i love watching people make the "god its killing me to bet but go on so i will" bets with the nuts.

[JayKon]

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Navarro's book on tells has already paid for itself with me.

Especially with regards to foot tells, something I'd never have though of before. I have a limited sample, but thus far, every time I look under the table, (and I do look), and see bouncing feet, the opponent has a monster. And when a guy has his feet back, wrapped around the chair, he is weak.

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I agree, the bouncing leg, while not a sign of the nuts, does usually indicate a good hand that the person expects to win with. A hand in a 6/12 I had flopped the nuts from the SB (and it stayed the nuts) when the river card hit, the guy on the button wen't from leaning back, to leaning forward and his leg started to bounce, I knew he just hit a 2nd best hand and would raise me. Because of 2 limpers between us, I could safly bet, knowing I would be raised.

(I three bet, he capped and the two limpers came along for the ride)

Sweet.

Thank you Navarro

[Xylem]

A personal favourite play of mine is to slam my chips in the middle declaring raise and watch my nut hand get paid off with a weak explanation of: " I thought u were stealing".

But i have a gold dust bit of info im not even sure i should divulge...

Its based on the assumption of schema's, and it assumes that we as experienced poker players have sufficently adequet poker schemas to be able to predict by cues, future results.

The way this is done, with this theory, is by hypothesizing, after looking at your opponent how they would react to an allin, a check etc.

Basically you look at your opponent and play in your head future possibilities, and see how the story would look with an allin etc.

Your subconscious (schemas etc) should be able to show u the most likely outcome, and so this skill becomes excellent for deciding whether to make that river call or allin bluff.

[Buckyinsc]

I like it when someone checks verbally and does it so that it sounds like a question. Almost like they're trying to let you know they have a hand but are just going to check. In my little weekly SNG game this is like an free ticket to steal the pot from them. They almost always have nothing but think they can get you to check behind them for a free card.

[Fels krone]

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a big tell when someone is going to fold is if they have their cards in their hands and look like they are ready to fold out of turn. I think betting patterns are better tells for us internet guys cuz we know them so well by now that they are second nature, great thread, i want to see responses

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In Caro's book, is feigning to fold out of turn not a sign of a huge hand? But yeah betting patterns ftw. Money talks.

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Sorry for the double post. I just wanted to respond to this one. Caro's book does cover this its true, but only if they are acting. You just have to know how to read players to make that decision.

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Most players today at low stakes live aren't aware enough to act. So many players just play their hands. I saw one guy read some script for work as he played cards, he was 100% transparent.

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To the contrary, I find that there are tons of actors at low stakes live (e.g., $200NL). Was playing a few weeks ago. I raise preflop with KK. Get a few callers. Flop is JJx. I continuation bet. Some people fold around to dude at other end of table, who furrows his brow, takes a long looking at the board, then reluctantly calls (check-call). Instantly put him on a J. Turn is blank and he is first to act. He makes a pained check. I check behind. River card is meaningless to me. He continues with the pained expressions, then fires out a pot-sized bet. I'm laughing to myself as I muck KK. Of course he shows Jack. Silly silly silly. I love these people. Whenever their looks/appearances do not match their actions, sure sign that something is awry.

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The important point that Caro makes is that you must be aware of when they are acting. When idiot is suffering as he makes his bet, he knows people are watching him because it is his turn to play. When it is your turn to play, idiot assumes you are concerned only with your cards/chips/play and will not put on an act at that point. So the "about to muck cards" tell would not be an act, but actually distaste for the cards.

Upper players are more aware that you are watching them, so that is why that tell would be reversed from lower stakes. They hope to provoke a bet that otherwise would not have been made.

[PunterSThompson]

Funniest tell I ever saw was playing at Caesar's. Really tight guy, who was quite thin and wearing a shirt with very short sleeves, raises. Folds rounds to mega-fish who reraises. Tight guy's arms immediately cover over in a wave of goose bumps. He stacks off and wins with AA.

Regards, Punter

[Xylem]

I hear alot about people being nervous, so bluffing, people throbbing, so sitting on the nuts, and people looking excited so stealing.

It all seems contradictory to me though.
Il be nervous with AA and a bluff.
So this tell just confuses me, i dont know if any1 feels the same?

[JayKon]

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I hear alot about people being nervous, so bluffing, people throbbing, so sitting on the nuts, and people looking excited so stealing.

It all seems contradictory to me though.
Il be nervous with AA and a bluff.
So this tell just confuses me, i dont know if any1 feels the same?

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I don't think they are the same, but rather two intense emotional states that have physical reactions.

On a bluff, you are lying and most of us have been taught thats it's bad to lie. So much so, that we fear getting caught. It is the fear, I think, that people show as nerviousness.

When someone has a hand that they beleive they are going to make a lot of money with, there is no fear, but a tremondous amount of excitement (you have just been told you are going to Disneyland, or taken to a candy store and may get anything you like). The adrenalin strats to pump and you enter a very happy and excited state.

What the two have in common in a poker game, is that you want to hide both, so either way it's a deception. There are differences, which you can learn to tell, but some things about them are going to be similar too.

One difference is that when we like something we move closer to it and when we don't we move away. Combine that with being nervous, or very calm and you can figure out where you are.

I do understnd your confusion. Even before Navarro's book, I was pretty fair at reading people. However, there was one case that drove me nuts. I was frequently confusing a stone cold bluff with a monster hand (and a monster with a bluff). They looked so much the same.

On a bluff, people will often lean away from the table and the same is true when someone has a monster. The difference, once you know what you're looking at, is not that hard to spot. On a bluff, the person is avoiding you and is as still (perhaps even still) as possile. On a monster, its more like they are relaxing - the same, but different.

[afadeyi]

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I hear alot about people being nervous, so bluffing, people throbbing, so sitting on the nuts, and people looking excited so stealing.

It all seems contradictory to me though.
Il be nervous with AA and a bluff.
So this tell just confuses me, i dont know if any1 feels the same?

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i agree. i've had aces and kings cracked so many times that even when im three betting/gettin it in preflop i'm scared/nervous.