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#21
07-19-2007, 04:55 PM
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Re: Posting Question
This was debated 7 ways to sunday in the limit forum a while back, and in the old cardplayer limit forum.
Posting in the CO is fine, posting in MP or EP is a waste. The time you waste is more valuable than any equity you save if you wait for the BB rather than posting in the CO. I pretty much always post if it would be in CO and wait for BB otherwise. 
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#22
07-19-2007, 04:58 PM
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Re: Posting Question
If you are playing 1/2.
You pay 2 to play in th CO "blind" and you don't get to play the button. If you come in in the BB, then you pay 3 dollars to get to play in the BB, SB, button and CO. 1 more dollar than posting, but you get 3 more hands, 2 of them have crappy pos. but hey you're not forced to play them any further, and 1 you have awesome position. Seems clear to me that that is a better deal than posting in the CO. Posting in the CO is only if you are too impatient to wait for the BB or there is some kind of time consideration.
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#23
07-19-2007, 04:58 PM
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Re: Posting Question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I can show you in an 8 handed game why it it improper to post from the CO. In an 8 handed game, if you post from the CO, you are paying 1bb for your first 5 hands or .2bb/hand. If you post in turn on the bb, you pay 1.5bb for your first 9 hands, or .167bb/hand, so it cost you less per hand to see your first orbit if you post from the bb rather than the CO. In 6 max games, posting from the CO is terrible as you are paying .333bb/hand for the first 3 hands as opposed to .25/hand if you wait for the bb. In 10 seat games it is slightly better to post in the CO if possible. You get 7 hands for 1bb or .143bb/hand and if you wait until the bb, you pay .15bb/hand. In a 9 handed game the costs are equal, so i guess it really doesn't matter that much. [/ QUOTE ] This assumes that the values of playing each position are equal, but they are not. What we need to know how profitable it is to play the CO posted vs playing the CO, button, and blinds normally. The number of other hands we get to play is actually not first-order relevant since we play them in either case. (Of course, how profitable the CO, button and blinds are would be affected by how many are sitting, so that does play a part, just not in the way you imply.) My experience in limit was that my losses posting in the CO were about equal to my losses in the SB and my winnings in the button and (unposted) CO were slightly less than my losses in the BB, so posting was superior to waiting. I have nowhere near enough data on NL to make a conclusion. [/ QUOTE ] I do agree that in limit, posting in the CO at a full FR table is superior to waiting on the big blind. Actually I would pass on my big blind and post behind the button. It isn't a huge advantage, but it is enough to be worthwhile. As far as what I said about how posting position affects cost per round, I do believe that it has an affect as I stated, but your statement also applies. I agree that the number of players at the table affects the value of your position, but there is also value in limiting your cost per hand for blinds. Part of your profit from non-posted CO hands are due to being able to select situations and hand ranges that are profitable. It would take a ton of sessions played to get anywhere near a reasonably sized sample to determine if posting from the CO is less unprofitable than waiting for the bb. I think that it is fair to assume that both are -EV propositions. Which situation is better is likely to be very player style and strength dependant.
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#24
07-19-2007, 05:07 PM
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Re: Posting Question
[ QUOTE ]
This was debated 7 ways to sunday in the limit forum a while back, and in the old cardplayer limit forum. Posting in the CO is fine, posting in MP or EP is a waste. The time you waste is more valuable than any equity you save if you wait for the BB rather than posting in the CO. I pretty much always post if it would be in CO and wait for BB otherwise. [/ QUOTE ] I know hand values are very different from Limit to NL, and I am pretty sure that position values change drastically (but obv are still in the same order of profitablility. I really need to look at my stats more, but I am pretty sure that in Limit I lost alot more in my blinds than I do in NL. This would greatly change the value of where to post and make this debate worthwhile.
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#25
07-19-2007, 05:12 PM
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Re: Posting Question
[ QUOTE ]
If you are playing 1/2. You pay 2 to play in th CO "blind" and you don't get to play the button. If you come in in the BB, then you pay 3 dollars to get to play in the BB, SB, button and CO. 1 more dollar than posting, but you get 3 more hands, 2 of them have crappy pos. but hey you're not forced to play them any further, and 1 you have awesome position. Seems clear to me that that is a better deal than posting in the CO. Posting in the CO is only if you are too impatient to wait for the BB or there is some kind of time consideration. [/ QUOTE ] Lucicrous. Check your PT stats...you make a profit from every position at the table except the blinds.Your getting six hands for one post, or 3-1. Posting in the plinds you get nine hands for 3 dollars...or 3-1..but, two of the hands are in the very worst position. So,now which is the better deal?
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#26
07-19-2007, 05:19 PM
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Re: Posting Question
This is going to be met with disdain but...
It probably makes absolute theoretical sense to buy in for 20bb on the BB and when u become the button then buy in full.
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#27
07-19-2007, 05:22 PM
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Re: Posting Question
[ QUOTE ]
This is going to be met with disdain but... It probably makes absolute theoretical sense to buy in for 20bb on the BB and when u become the button then buy in full. [/ QUOTE ] I like it!!! You may have started something people hat more than shortstacking and min-raises, but I am gonna try it the next time I sit!
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#28
07-19-2007, 05:48 PM
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Re: Posting Question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If you are playing 1/2. You pay 2 to play in th CO "blind" and you don't get to play the button. If you come in in the BB, then you pay 3 dollars to get to play in the BB, SB, button and CO. 1 more dollar than posting, but you get 3 more hands, 2 of them have crappy pos. but hey you're not forced to play them any further, and 1 you have awesome position. Seems clear to me that that is a better deal than posting in the CO. Posting in the CO is only if you are too impatient to wait for the BB or there is some kind of time consideration. [/ QUOTE ] Lucicrous. Check your PT stats...you make a profit from every position at the table except the blinds.Your getting six hands for one post, or 3-1. Posting in the plinds you get nine hands for 3 dollars...or 3-1..but, two of the hands are in the very worst position. So,now which is the better deal? [/ QUOTE ] You wouldn't be profitable from the CO if you were forced to post a blind. If you take out the money that I post from the SB and BB, I am more profitable from the SB and BB than I am from UTG and UTG+1 (the reason being that SB and BB are actually in position Preflop and UTG is always OOP, unless only called by the blinds). It is the fact that you are forced to post a blind that makes you unprofitable from these positions.
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#29
07-19-2007, 06:12 PM
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Re: Posting Question
Post in position. You suffer a high opportunity cost by not posting. But posting in 6-max is obviously bad.
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#30
07-19-2007, 06:19 PM
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Re: Posting Question
[ QUOTE ]
This is going to be met with disdain but... It probably makes absolute theoretical sense to buy in for 20bb on the BB and when u become the button then buy in full. [/ QUOTE ] Why? When you get dealt 95o in the BB you will lose 1BB when you have 20BB or 100BB. It doesn't matter. But when you get KK in the BB, would you rather have 20BB or 100BB?
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