why you should squash the "what does betting accomplish" line in ssnl

[Zaid_Ahmed]

My bet and raise % is pretty high on all streets. But I am a luckbox and do play on Party.

[holyfield5]

really i use betting mainly to control the hand. The donks will be very aggresive if they sniff even a hint of weakness and put YOU to decisions instead of you controlling the situation and pot. They dont seem to care about bet sizing and just love to mash pot, which as a thinking player really makes me need to think ahead about the spots i get into and the amount of control i want to have in hands i play.

Also the range of hands they show up with just amazes me sometimes so i bet because because those strange hands and calls they make need to get punished and the implied odds they have for calling with garbage are high(and they are really more likely to pay you off with garbage early than late).....so charge them early and check it late unless you improve.

this was tricky to put my thoughts into words, i hope at least a few people understand what im getting at.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

[ QUOTE ]
I made a thread on this on this awhile back
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...page=&vc=1

Kind of on the same lines you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not close to the same concept.

I think I have an example from a hand I played the other day.

I raise AK in the CO, two callers. Flop comes A63 with two diamonds. I bet, get one caller oop. Turn 3o, he checks, I bet again. The river is the 8d, and villain checks. I think this is a situation where people in SSNL would all say "check, because nothing worse is calling." I think that is wrong. I shoved for value. If you are really going to say that your opponent will fold all worse hands, and only call with better, then you are playing in the most straightforward manner imaginable. Think about the example I give.

If I am going to be bluffing there, betting AK/Ax, betting 2 pr/sets, betting a flush, how can you possibly say that my opponent will know what I will have to the point where he will be able to play perfectly by folding all worse, and calling with all better?

[PoppaTMan]

Greg,

Isn't this just thinking one level above the "what does betting accomplish" line? I imagine you're expecting to get looked up light because villain is going to put you on a big flush/boat/air.

I think when we're playing against level 1 opponents (what does my opponent hold?), we need to consider what betting "accomplishes". It's when we're playing against level 0 opponents (what do I have), level 2 opponents (what does my opponent think I think he has?), and other level 2n opponents that this should be less of a consideration.

Edited for clarity.

[snakekilla88]

Greg I dont think I understand your example. If you think hes calling with worse enough for it to be profitable then its a +EV river bet end of story.

I guess the post I made in msnl might be different. I agree the term "raising for information" can be better worded. But bottom line of my post;

Being agressive is good. Always following this "does it only fold worse?/ keep better" makes you straight foward. Especially if your more likely to make a mistake by playing your hand passively. It makes you tougher to play against as well by adding deception, so it makes hand reading more difficult. Sorry if I am way off here, with snowbanks intended post. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img].

[pokerchap]

On a slightly different note, I think a lot of people on this forum give villains at 100nl and 200nl way too much credit and put them on ranges that are too small. If these ranges were in fact correct, checking behind would be correct but I think a lot of the villains have ranges that are a lot larger than ppl think, therefore betting definitley will get those hands to call in a lot of spots.

anyone have any thoughts?

[Isura]

chap,

I agree.

[_TKO_]

Further on what chap was saying, and another poster earlier in the thread, I think the "what does betting accomplish" line is based on the assumption that opponent is playing perfectly against us. If this was always true, then none of us should be playing poker.

[MasterLJ]

[ QUOTE ]
On a slightly different note, I think a lot of people on this forum give villains at 100nl and 200nl way too much credit and put them on ranges that are too small. If these ranges were in fact correct, checking behind would be correct but I think a lot of the villains have ranges that are a lot larger than ppl think, therefore betting definitley will get those hands to call in a lot of spots.

anyone have any thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a huge leak of mine in that I give the average SSNL WAYYYY too much credit... mostly in what hands they'll lay down, but it's along the same strain.

[CallYNotRaise06]

i read a post from a well known hsnl player(cant remember who) who said i just bet when i think i have the best hand and let my opponents figure out what to pay me off with. i thought about that for a while, and it really made sense.