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#21
10-04-2007, 01:48 PM
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Re: The Problem with Atheism: by Sam Harris
[ QUOTE ]
We should go under the radar—for the rest of our lives. [/ QUOTE ] LOL is that NYT Bestselling anti-religion author Sam Harris, telling us to go under the radar? Seriously I get his point that theists have managed to label athiests as some sort of cranky subculture. But they will do this to anyone who doesn't adhere to their majority position, regardless. The label "athiest" isn't the issue, it's being in the outgroup. It's true that non-racists don't need a label for themselves. But if 98% of people were unapologetically racist, you can bet those 2% would be seen as a cranky subculture, regardless of what they called themselves. 
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#22
10-04-2007, 02:20 PM
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Re: The Problem with Atheism: by Sam Harris
[ QUOTE ]
LOL is that NYT Bestselling anti-religion author Sam Harris, telling us to go under the radar? [/ QUOTE ] His comments are valid ( where they are not poorly based) only if one agrees with what he sees as the 'goal'. Or perhaps, at least with what he sees as 'the problem'. Not everyone does. luckyme
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#23
10-04-2007, 02:31 PM
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Re: The Problem with Atheism: by Sam Harris
[ QUOTE ]
I'm regularly troubled by the arrogance of atheists, most particularly those looking to spread the 'good' word. [/ QUOTE ] I've always been amazed at the conceit of religions. Each think existence revolves around man.
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#25
10-04-2007, 03:05 PM
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Re: The Problem with Atheism: by Sam Harris
"One can be an atheist and believe in elves"
That is exactly why there should be a different name for those atheists who don't believe in elves.
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#26
10-04-2007, 03:10 PM
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Re: The Problem with Atheism: by Sam Harris
[ QUOTE ]
"One can be an atheist and believe in elves" That is exactly why there should be a different name for those atheists who don't believe in elves. [/ QUOTE ] How about "reasonable"?
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#27
10-04-2007, 05:04 PM
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Re: The Problem with Atheism: by Sam Harris
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] We should go under the radar—for the rest of our lives. [/ QUOTE ] LOL is that NYT Bestselling anti-religion author Sam Harris, telling us to go under the radar? Seriously I get his point that theists have managed to label athiests as some sort of cranky subculture. But they will do this to anyone who doesn't adhere to their majority position, regardless. The label "athiest" isn't the issue, it's being in the outgroup. It's true that non-racists don't need a label for themselves. But if 98% of people were unapologetically racist, you can bet those 2% would be seen as a cranky subculture, regardless of what they called themselves. [/ QUOTE ] I'm more interested in whether or not it's effective to label ourselves atheists in debating against religion. It's easier for religious types to debate against atheism than to debate against reason. When debating against atheism, religious people say how you can't prove there's a God, and we respond w/ the spaghetti monster. Or they use Hitler & Stalin as examples of atheists. Harris is arguing that wouldn't be the case if we just represented ourselves as people of reason. Would religious people argue that Stalin & Hitler were men of reason? So being viewed as merely cranky isn't the issue with the atheism label. It's in getting the point across more effectively, rather than rehash cyclical arguments that lead nowhere convincing no one.
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#28
10-04-2007, 05:23 PM
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Re: The Problem with Atheism: by Sam Harris
[ QUOTE ]
Harris is arguing that wouldn't be the case if we just represented ourselves as people of reason. [/ QUOTE ] That would seem dishonest to me. There is no mandatory causal link to atheism, and the fact that the majority of atheists are more reasonable than theists does not mean that atheism can only arise from reason. "you're an atheist .. so you are a person of reason" is not valid. I may present myself as "an atheist via reason" but I don't see how my atheist neighbor could, he simply doesn't believe there is a god but not on grounds that seem reasonable to me. luckyme
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#29
10-04-2007, 05:55 PM
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Re: The Problem with Atheism: by Sam Harris
I don't get what is dishonest about arguing that theism cannot arise from reason.
I present myself as a reasonable person, so I can be simultaneously not be religious & disassociate myself from your neighbor. They're aligned in ignorance.
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#30
10-04-2007, 06:27 PM
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Re: The Problem with Atheism: by Sam Harris
[ QUOTE ]
"One can be an atheist and believe in elves" That is exactly why there should be a different name for those atheists who don't believe in elves. [/ QUOTE ] These questions are 100% equivalent: - What is an elve? - What is a God? Believing that metaphors are facts = theism. Knowing that metaphors are not facts = atheism. We don't need another name.
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