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#21
06-20-2006, 10:15 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
[ QUOTE ]
school is very stressful, and given the choice any kid would prefer to play hooky and have the day off. <font color="red"> Id prefer to play poker or listen to music all day but nobody wants to pay me the same salary that my education has prepared me to make for those endeavors </font> [/ QUOTE ] You get rewarded (read: paid) for your work. Students don't. They are trained to think of good grades as rewards (you can condition quite a few things to be rewarding), but you can't eat, drink, smoke, or pay your bills with grades. [ QUOTE ] Public schooling does not prepare children for any career. <font color="red"> if you mean it doesnt prepare them for a specific career you are correct, if you really mean "any" career I disagree. </font> [/ QUOTE ] Please explain how it prepares kids for jobs. Any jobs. [ QUOTE ] A GED is still viewed as the last resort of drop-outs and from two equally qualified candidates the one with a GED will lose 90% of the time. [/ QUOTE ] No, the one who the boss thinks can do a better job will get the job. [ QUOTE ] There are multiple goals of education. The most important ones imo are to teach how to use resources to learn more, and how to "think". There is also an important biological function to education...the brain doesnt develop as well without the stimulation of learning. [/ QUOTE ] All experiences, arguably, involve learning to some degree. The question is, how effective is the learning material? I agree that teaching kids how to think is a good thing, but that is never the focus of a school curriculum. Schools teach kids what to think. Consequently, their education results in nothing more than studying the night before to pass a test on something they don't care about the next day, and then forgetting it afterward when the usefulness of the knowledge has, in fact, expired. That is not useful. [ QUOTE ] how do you think someone finds their career interests without exposure to mutliple disciplines? [/ QUOTE ] Non-sequitur. It is completely possible to develop an interest in something without being forced to study it. [ QUOTE ] yes, I believe there are studies that left brain development is stimulated by education in the hard sciencies. Rote memorization is only the first step in learning the hard sciences, but for some its as far as they can get. [/ QUOTE ] I'm talking about K-12 here. No one actually gets into the interesting aspects of science until college. K-12 is all rote memorization about a panoply of garbage that no one cares about. 
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#22
06-20-2006, 10:32 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
You must have been unfortunate to attend some very poor schools because virtually every response of yours is wrong. [ QUOTE ]
Please explain how it prepares kids for jobs. Any jobs. [/ QUOTE ] by giving them the tools to learn whatever skills are eventually needed. [ QUOTE ] No, the one who the boss thinks can do a better job will get the job. [/ QUOTE ] I stipulated they are equally qualified. Reading comprehension problem? [ QUOTE ] All experiences, arguably, involve learning to some degree. The question is, how effective is the learning material? I agree that teaching kids how to think is a good thing, but that is never the focus of a school curriculum. Schools teach kids what to think. Consequently, their education results in nothing more than studying the night before to pass a test on something they don't care about the next day, and then forgetting it afterward when the usefulness of the knowledge has, in fact, expired. That is not useful. [/ QUOTE ] As I said, its unfortunate that you went to some poor schools. That is not the focus of all of them, and certainly not the focus of the schools I went to or my son (all public schools). [ QUOTE ] Non-sequitur. It is completely possible to develop an interest in something without being forced to study it. [/ QUOTE ] Anythings possible. Exposure makes it far more likely. [ QUOTE ] I'm talking about K-12 here. No one actually gets into the interesting aspects of science until college. K-12 is all rote memorization about a panoply of garbage that no one cares about. [/ QUOTE ] Again i apologize for your experiences but this statement is asinine and patently false. I had AP credit in three courses. The material I studied in high school was equivalent to or more advanced than the college courses they replaced.
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#24
06-20-2006, 10:43 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
[ QUOTE ]
You must have been unfortunate to attend some very poor schools because virtually every response of yours is wrong. [/ QUOTE ] K-8 went to the best public school in the county, went through the "gifted kids" program, and went to private schools after that. [ QUOTE ] by giving them the tools to learn whatever skills are eventually needed. [/ QUOTE ] If this were true, schools would focus on learning techniques rather than learning material. In fact, if they actually taught learning techniques well, they wouldn't need to use rigid curriculums. [ QUOTE ] I stipulated they are equally qualified. Reading comprehension problem? [/ QUOTE ] You stipulated something that cannot happen. The mere fact that the potential employees are different in personality will cause the interviewer to have preference. [ QUOTE ] As I said, its unfortunate that you went to some poor schools. [/ QUOTE ] Ah, condescent as an argument. I'm finished with you, right after I returned the favor. [ QUOTE ] The material I studied in high school was equivalent to or more advanced than the college courses they replaced. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry that you went to such a poor college.
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#26
06-20-2006, 10:59 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You must have been unfortunate to attend some very poor schools because virtually every response of yours is wrong. [/ QUOTE ] K-8 went to the best public school in the county, went through the "gifted kids" program, and went to private schools after that. [ QUOTE ] by giving them the tools to learn whatever skills are eventually needed. [/ QUOTE ] If this were true, schools would focus on learning techniques rather than learning material. In fact, if they actually taught learning techniques well, they wouldn't need to use rigid curriculums. [ QUOTE ] I stipulated they are equally qualified. Reading comprehension problem? [/ QUOTE ] You stipulated something that cannot happen. The mere fact that the potential employees are different in personality will cause the interviewer to have preference. [ QUOTE ] As I said, its unfortunate that you went to some poor schools. [/ QUOTE ] Ah, condescent as an argument. I'm finished with you, right after I returned the favor. [ QUOTE ] The material I studied in high school was equivalent to or more advanced than the college courses they replaced. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry that you went to such a poor college. [/ QUOTE ] Just in the top 10 of science and engineering undergraduate schools in USNWR's annual survey. Why dont you try one of those free economics threads you threatened to post? Youre not even treading water on education.
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#28
06-20-2006, 11:35 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
It is also designed to get kids to be submissive and obey authority.
Of course real education, as in real learning, is far from this. But public schools are a big fraud by and large. That is why home schoolers with competent teachers kick but over anything the public schools produce.
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#29
06-20-2006, 11:43 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
[ QUOTE ]
It is also designed to get kids to be submissive and obey authority. Of course real education, as in real learning, is far from this. But public schools are a big fraud by and large. That is why home schoolers with competent teachers kick but over anything the public schools produce. [/ QUOTE ] Would you like to provide some support for that. I havent seen any data so maybe youre right. But the 10 or some home schooled kids I know were not as successful in college placement as the district overall, and several of them had an education so focused on religion that they didnt have the basic skills necessary to score well on the SATs, so they resorted to ACTs to get into marginal liberal arts colleges. Only one of them wouldnt be considered socially undeveloped, and that was because he was a high level athlete who was home schooled to give more time for training. He was by far the most succesful of the group getting into one of the Ivy's...on an athletic scholarship.
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#30
06-20-2006, 11:58 PM
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Re: What is the goal of education?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It is also designed to get kids to be submissive and obey authority. Of course real education, as in real learning, is far from this. But public schools are a big fraud by and large. That is why home schoolers with competent teachers kick but over anything the public schools produce. [/ QUOTE ] Would you like to provide some support for that. I havent seen any data so maybe youre right. But the 10 or some home schooled kids I know were not as successful in college placement as the district overall, and several of them had an education so focused on religion that they didnt have the basic skills necessary to score well on the SATs, so they resorted to ACTs to get into marginal liberal arts colleges. Only one of them wouldnt be considered socially undeveloped, and that was because he was a high level athlete who was home schooled to give more time for training. He was by far the most succesful of the group getting into one of the Ivy's...on an athletic scholarship. [/ QUOTE ] What percent of home schoolers can not do basic math and construct a paragraph?
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