$60 - AKo - The Return of the Creature's Ghost in 3D

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
how much you've effed yourself in this tourney by giving half your stack away.

[/ QUOTE ]

Irrelevant because it's a sunk cost and you still have >20x the blinds. The past is the past, what matters now are the pot odds vs. the odds you are beat.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He can't have AQ? What about A2? JJ? If our opponents were logical people and only reraised here with two pair or a set then we couldn't make much money at this game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but he is logical look at his big reraise PF with A5o and then his min bet on the flop with top and bottom pair, followed by his genius min reraise. Let's watch the guy do 3 completely illogical things, and then try to give players like him a range of hands that all beats your top pair top kicker. It's absurd!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Some donks play exactly this way consistently. Overaggressive preflop because it isn't much of their stack, but any raise after the flop means big strength, period. I just busted out to one yesterday even though I knew better.

Also between ICM and wanting an edge I'm playing this as much closer to 2:1 than 3:1.

Like I said I'm pushing most of the time also, I just don't think a fold is so unbelievably awful that it can't generate some discussion. Which we've had. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[glass_onion]

i don't think its that easy. 20x bb is a lot, but arguements could be made for calling even with big hands. When you have a good chance of having the best hand, which you do here, you can't get scared of all the iffs. Occasionally you have to get lucky on the off chance you are beat.

I put him on JJ or ax. if he has AT, bad luck.

Later in the tournament I would definetely make a preflop raise, but I like calling in situatins like this. Put it this way, what would you do with AQ in his position? Lose all your chips, that's right. By raising preflop you put the breaks on most hands you have beat IF an ace hits. If it doesn't, well, you get the point.

At least that's my line. Shove and smile. You win.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't think its that easy. 20x bb is a lot, but arguements could be made for calling even with big hands. You have to get lucky against better hands once in a while, especiaaly when there is a good chance you have the better hand.

I put him on JJ or ax. if he has AT, bad luck.

Later in the tournament I would definetely make a preflop raise, but I like calling in situatins like this. Put it this way, what would you do with AQ in his position? Lose all your chips, that's right. By raising preflop you put the breaks on most hands you have beat IF an ace hits. If it doesn't, well, you get the point.

At least that's my line. Shove and smile. You win.

[/ QUOTE ]

WooT?

[curtains]

folding is for morons [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain had A5. I just had to see it.

[/ QUOTE ]

no you didn't, you had to fold, and you also should've raised less on the flop.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not folding here. 'Nuff said.

[/ QUOTE ]

He limped UTG and then check-minraised a huge raise into two people, what the hell do you put him on, AQ?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

I put him on JJ or ax. if he has AT, bad luck.


[/ QUOTE ]

What the hell? Who plays JJ or Ax this way?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]

You got AK, you hit an A or a K on the flop, you go broke with it. It's that simple.


[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the time this is true, but this is a clear cut case where it isn't, I'm sorry. NOBODY plays a hand worse than 2 pair this way on such a drawless board.

[wiggs73]

Ok, here are my thoughts. And we'll go ahead and get out of the way that yes, I've read all the responses and yes, I was going to say fold before I did. Anyone that's read most of the hands I've posted over hte past couple of weeks probably know that anyway.

Here's the thing. First, Curtains, I'm not sure what hand you're looking at, but a lot of your recaps of UTG's actions are wrong. He called PF, called a raise PF and then check-raised the flop. I think you have MP1 confused w/ UTG, but MP1 folded on the flop after his min-bet. Ok, your point doesn't change but I'm just saying...

We already know that you assume everyone is an idiot, especially at an $X buy-in where X is a 1 or 2 digit number. At what point does your average opponent stop being a bumbling idiot that plays worse than I did when I start playing $6s 2 years ago? $109s? $215s? Does everyone just suck ass at poker at every buy-in? I mean come on, you said this is a $60... yeah you do see some idiots. But I don't think the typical $60 player is saying woot, an underpair.... I'll be sneaky sneak and min-re-re-raise the flop, teehee I bet MHIG!! Please. To say that is ridiculous. Hell, someone else said in the thread that if everyone only raised w/ 2 pair or a set, we'd all have a hard time making money. Well if everyone raised raised raised with absolute [censored], we'd all make 10x the amount of money we do, because we'd never have to think twice about getting in with top pair.

Like I seriously don't understand why we shouldn't EVER give our opponents credit for ANYTHING. I know I probably sound like the weakest, tightest nit ever when I say to fold so often, but that isn't the case. Plenty of situations I'm capable of calling or pushing or whatever when I think villain's line isn't consitent with anything that I'm behind. I pick off my fair share of bluffs / "value bets" from 2nd or 3rd best hands / etc. But no, I'm sorry, more often than not when someone at a $60 checks the flop and then raises a bettor AND a raiser, they don't have top pair with a 2 kicker. And they don't have 2nd pair or some other crap either. And I'm not saying they don't ever, but come on... some of you act like the $60s play as bad as the $3.30s and that just isn't the case.

And FWIW, if anyone wants to go find HHs where villain flipped up a [censored] hand after taking a line like this, please just find all the times they didn't while you're at it. Stop acting like this is never a hand better than TPTK.