Ann Coulter : "Jews need to be perfected", i.e. become Christians

[Goater]

[ QUOTE ]
I am Jewish and most of my friends are Jewish. And I am telling you that most of them look down on any Jew not born Jewish. They don't care if it is written in Jewish Law - it is just the way it is. For you to claim otherwise is either dishonest or you truly associate with a different brand of Jew than I do.

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Well, there is not much I can comment on regarding the specific people you associate with (i dont mean that to sound rude). All I can say is that from a fundamentally religious point of view, the welcoming of converts is ingrained and explicitly based in religious law. If your circle of friends behave differently, they are just a group of people that have not been educated properly (according to the law of the religion they follow) and are therefore not behaving in the way their religion requires. Your experience is more a comment on your circle of friends than on their religion.

I have wide experience regarding conversion, not limited to the fact that my mother converted from Catholicism. I know many converts. Without exception, I have never heard anything bad from them regarding their status (and im talking about converts in a number of different strains of Judaism and in a number of countries - not an isolated community).

Again, your comments - unless you have any other evidence to the contrary - describe a group of people who are behaving contrary to the dictates of the religion they follow and therefore do not represent Judaism in general. In my experience converts are highly respected in their communities for a number of reasons, not least the fact that they have usually had to sacrifice and work very hard to become Jews, rather than simply being born into the religion. I do not believe that your experience is representative of Judaism in general.

Out of interest, what community/strain of Judaism do you belong to? Do you know personally anyone that has converted? Do you look down on converts yourself? If so, what are your reasons? And what are the reasons that your friends look down on converts?

Im genuinly interested re this.... Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
Again, your comments - unless you have any other evidence to the contrary - describe a group of people who are behaving contrary to the dictates of the religion they follow and therefore do not represent Judaism in general. In my experience converts are highly respected in their communities for a number of reasons, not least the fact that they have usually had to sacrifice and work very hard to become Jews, rather than simply being born into the religion. I do not believe that your experience is representative of Judaism in general.

Out of interest, what community/strain of Judaism do you belong to? Do you know personally anyone that has converted? Do you look down on converts yourself? If so, what are your reasons? And what are the reasons that your friends look down on converts?

Im genuinly interested re this.... Thanks for taking the time to reply.

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it's widely known that black jews are discrimiinated against, even to the point where israel won't let them immigrate even though they're jews. think an article on this recently.

[Goater]

This is an incredibly complex issue that cannot be simplified in the way you have.

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it's widely known that black jews are discrimiinated against, even to the point where israel won't let them immigrate even though they're jews.

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I really think your comments are hugely misleading. Anyone who knows nothing of this issue would take what you wrote to mean that Israel bars immigration of black Jews because they are black. This is totally incorrect.

Over 90,000 Ethiopian Jews have immigrated to Israel - 85% of all who consider themselves Jewish in Ethiopia. A huge effort was made by Israel to bring them to Israel.

From wikipedia :

"(IN 1991) Worried about the fate of the Beta Israel (in Ethiopia) during the transition period, the Israeli government along with several private groups prepared to covertly continue along with the migration. With El Al obtaining a special provision to fly on Shabbat (because of the danger to life), on Friday, May 24, Operation Solomon began. Over the course of 36 hours, a total of 34 El Al passenger planes, with their seats removed to maximize passenger capacity, flew 14,325 Ethiopian Jews non-stop to Israel."

Whilst their absorption has been understandably difficult and many mistakes have been made, they are largely fully accepted into Israeli society. The process will continue and hopefully improve.

There is an ongoing debate regarding the status of certain groups of Ethiopian "Jews" who wish to come to Israel, however this is based on disagreements as to their status and whether they are entitled to immigrate. This is not due to any racist reasons.

[bocablkr]

No problem. I think you are putting too much negative connotation in the words 'looked down on'. It is more of an expression. It doesn't mean that we despise or hate them. Just that we kind of feel they are not 'true' Jews.

You have to carry the 'Jew Bloodline' if you know what I mean. The reason there are stereotypes about Jews is because they have not mingled much with outside gene pools. For good or bad their gene pool is one of the most unique and uncontaminated in the world. There has not been much change in it for over 5000 years.

I personally am an Atheist yet consider myself a proud Jew. You may argue that I am looked down upon more so than a convert by the truly religious Jews. However, most of my Jewish friends and relatives are Atheists as well.

[Goater]

Im probably very close to you in my outlook... proud jew, but dont like/not sure of the strictly "religious" side of things.

I accept your points, but still say that this is not what Judaism says regarding converts, what my experience has shown me or how Jews should behave towards converts and anyone thinking or behaving like this is just wrong, with absolutely no practical, historical or religious justification.

This is not the place to open up a genetic discussion, but I do disagree with your comments in that regard. I dont have time now to look up the references (and I could be wrong) but I will look into this more if it becomes an issue people want to discuss.

Thanks for your reply...

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
Im probably very close to you in my outlook... proud jew, but dont like/not sure of the strictly "religious" side of things.

I accept your points, but still say that this is not what Judaism says regarding converts, what my experience has shown me or how Jews should behave towards converts and anyone thinking or behaving like this is just wrong, with absolutely no practical, historical or religious justification.

This is not the place to open up a genetic discussion, but I do disagree with your comments in that regard. I dont have time now to look up the references (and I could be wrong) but I will look into this more if it becomes an issue people want to discuss.

Thanks for your reply...

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Check out this link - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10827385/

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
Dateline South Florida, 10/25/07 03:09 PM
<font color="white"> . </font>
bocablkr shocked the 2+2 Politics forum today when he implied that interbreeding with gentiles would "contaminate" Jewish bloodlines, saying that the Jewish gene pool is "the most unique and uncontaminated in the world."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why these kinds of stories are silly. Take something completely innocuous (Christians want to convert others) out of context and highlight it in the most negative way possible (ZOMG Skeletor thinks Jews are imperfect!) to smear that person (for the record, Ann Coulter is a nut, but come on this is silly).

[bocablkr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dateline South Florida, 10/25/07 03:09 PM
<font color="white"> . </font>
bocablkr shocked the 2+2 Politics forum today when he implied that interbreeding with gentiles would "contaminate" Jewish bloodlines, saying that the Jewish gene pool is "the most unique and uncontaminated in the world."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why these kinds of stories are silly. Take something completely innocuous (Christians want to convert others) out of context and highlight it in the most negative way possible (ZOMG Skeletor thinks Jews are imperfect!) to smear that person (for the record, Ann Coulter is a nut, but come on this is silly).

[/ QUOTE ]

Boro,

Are you disputing this - Note: I did not say better. Just the most pure (gene wise) of the major religions. Contaminated doesn't necessarily mean something bad - it could have been contaminated by a better gene pool. Check out the link.

[Borodog]

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Dateline South Florida, 10/25/07 03:09 PM
<font color="white"> . </font>
bocablkr shocked the 2+2 Politics forum today when he implied that interbreeding with gentiles would "contaminate" Jewish bloodlines, saying that the Jewish gene pool is "the most unique and uncontaminated in the world."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why these kinds of stories are silly. Take something completely innocuous (Christians want to convert others) out of context and highlight it in the most negative way possible (ZOMG Skeletor thinks Jews are imperfect!) to smear that person (for the record, Ann Coulter is a nut, but come on this is silly).

[/ QUOTE ]

Boro,

Are you disputing this - Note: I did not say better. Just the most pure (gene wise) of the major religions. Contaminated doesn't necessarily mean something bad - it could have been contaminated by a better gene pool. Check out the link.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not disputing it at all. I read the link and it's very interesting.

I was just using your post as an illustration of smearing someone by taking some innocuous statement out of context and putting it in as unflattering a light as possible. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

[bocablkr]

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Dateline South Florida, 10/25/07 03:09 PM
<font color="white"> . </font>
bocablkr shocked the 2+2 Politics forum today when he implied that interbreeding with gentiles would "contaminate" Jewish bloodlines, saying that the Jewish gene pool is "the most unique and uncontaminated in the world."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why these kinds of stories are silly. Take something completely innocuous (Christians want to convert others) out of context and highlight it in the most negative way possible (ZOMG Skeletor thinks Jews are imperfect!) to smear that person (for the record, Ann Coulter is a nut, but come on this is silly).

[/ QUOTE ]

Boro,

Are you disputing this - Note: I did not say better. Just the most pure (gene wise) of the major religions. Contaminated doesn't necessarily mean something bad - it could have been contaminated by a better gene pool. Check out the link.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not disputing it at all. I read the link and it's very interesting.

I was just using your post as an illustration of smearing someone by taking some innocuous statement out of context and putting it in as unflattering a light as possible. Sorry if it wasn't clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, we are good. I know we disagree on some issues (AC for one) but I do respect you.