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#21
08-26-2006, 01:08 PM
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Re: You make the call
Not that I'd call the floor in this situation, or that I think there's any backing for it in the rules, but I do feel like if you're passing cards to another player and you're not playing Anaconda, you no longer have a hand. It just seems like the sort of hanky-panky with the cards that wouldn't be allowed.
Showing your hand to another player is one thing...actually releasing your hand into another player's custody seems like something else altogether. But again, I'm more interested in getting to play another hand after this one. I can sit quietly and nit internally. 
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#22
08-26-2006, 01:29 PM
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Re: You make the call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] wow live players are nits. [/ QUOTE ] elaboration please? [/ QUOTE ] Read some of the advice in this thread. "Muck the hand?" wtf [/ QUOTE ] that and who the hell cares if she shows her hand to someone. seat 7 is prob taking forever, she's bored, and wants something to do. 99% of the time this isnt an angle and only harms her. just stfu and play cards -- trying to get a "floor decision" here is so nitty, just call or fold. [/ QUOTE ] Completely agree. Once I had a guy show his hole cards to a girl who was all in, which I have no problem with as they weren't discussing anything. ....Then she says "here" and shows him her cards! :O
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#23
08-26-2006, 01:47 PM
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Re: You make the call
[ QUOTE ]
It just seems like the sort of hanky-panky with the cards that wouldn't be allowed. [/ QUOTE ] Yesterday I was browsing Dirty Poker in a bookstore. I found the anecdote about a "mucking team" at the Bike particularly fascinating. A man and a woman would imperceptibly (except to our author) switch cards so that one of them would end up with the best of the four cards. I certainly don't think that's what's going on in the OP -- seeing as how one of the two participants no longer had cards! -- but from the cardroom's perspective it's probably good practice to nip this idea of passing cards around in the bud. Declaring hands dead for a first offense is heavy-handed, of course, but for the dealer to tell the players to play their own hand and wait until after the hand for post mortem seems reasonable.
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#24
08-26-2006, 01:50 PM
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Re: You make the call
[ QUOTE ]
Of course the floor should have seat 6's hand automatically shown to all players (after seat 7 acts) since she did violate the "show one, show all" rule. [/ QUOTE ] In another situation, when I suggested that the dealer should take the initiative here to protect SOSA, I took the consensus to be that I was out of line for asking the house to support my nittiness.
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#25
08-26-2006, 03:39 PM
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Re: You make the call
If the person seeing the cards could still bet postflop, it would be SOSA as soon as the flop betting was done, since he has information the other players in the hand don't. Since no one in the hand is getting information during the hand that could benefit them for the rest of the hand, it's SOSA after the hand is over.
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#26
08-26-2006, 03:48 PM
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Re: You make the call
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Of course the floor should have seat 6's hand automatically shown to all players (after seat 7 acts) since she did violate the "show one, show all" rule. [/ QUOTE ] In another situation, when I suggested that the dealer should take the initiative here to protect SOSA, I took the consensus to be that I was out of line for asking the house to support my nittiness. [/ QUOTE ] Violation of "Show one player your cards, you must show everyone your cards (i.e., show one show all)" can range from an innocuous and meaningless offense (e.g., a player shows his neighbor who has already folded that he just got dealt his tenth lousy hand in a row) to something that is seriously unfair and often pisses people off. For example, player at the other end of the table makes a big bet on a big pot and his opponent (holding a fair hand) ends up folding. He shows the cards he bet big to a couple players at that end of the table, but his opponent doesn't get to see them. Both violate SOSA, but I wouldn't call anyone a nit who wants SOSA enforced in the later instance (and would in the first). Worse violation of SOSA I've ever seen was during a huge pot in NL. Stacks for all players were deep and the pot was big BTF. On the flop player A had already bet big, Player B raised big, and Player C now goes into the tank. Before he folds he clearly and deliberately shows his hand to Player B and then mucks it! I wasn't in the hand but spoke up since it was so out of line. What annoyed me the most was Player C was an experienced player had that he had some sort of association with the Poker Players Alliance (hopefully not anything to do with etiquette and fairness). Ever since then I can't take the PPA seriously. ~ Rick
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#27
08-26-2006, 04:34 PM
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Re: You make the call
Point taken about differences in gravity. That's something I should learn to be more perceptive about.
[ QUOTE ] Before he folds he clearly and deliberately shows his hand to Player B and then mucks it! [/ QUOTE ] Yeeesh... So in that case, the dealer should catch the cards before letting them be mixed in the muck and expose them to the table, right? Or if it's essential that Player A must ask for that information, at the very least the dealer should be holding those cards aside. Was that dealer on-the-ball?
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#28
08-26-2006, 04:58 PM
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Re: You make the call
[ QUOTE ]
Point taken about differences in gravity. That's something I should learn to be more perceptive about. [ QUOTE ] Before he folds he clearly and deliberately shows his hand to Player B and then mucks it! [/ QUOTE ] Yeeesh... So in that case, the dealer should catch the cards before letting them be mixed in the muck and expose them to the table, right? Or if it's essential that Player A must ask for that information, at the very least the dealer should be holding those cards aside. Was that dealer on-the-ball? [/ QUOTE ] Here was the first time I told the story. If memory serves he tossed them in the muck with a spinning motion so they were quickly embedded. But the dealer could have said something when he was showing, but it doesn't surprise me that he didn't. Most dealers in LA do a good job on technical issues (e.g., pitch, reading hands) but don't do much to control etiquette. There are many reasons and they could do better but the big problem is it is -EV for them. For example if they do they might run into the managers friend, and they lose even if they are right. Many also have problems with the language, as do the customers. In any event, I like gamesmanship and the fun stuff, but certain types of breeches of etiquette and angles are going to hurt the NL games as the action inevitably tightens up. Worth a long post I don't have time for now. ~ Rick
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#29
08-26-2006, 07:27 PM
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Re: You make the call
[ QUOTE ]
if you're passing cards to another player and you're not playing Anaconda, you no longer have a hand. It just seems like the sort of hanky-panky with the cards that wouldn't be allowed. Showing your hand to another player is one thing...actually releasing your hand into another player's custody seems like something else altogether. [/ QUOTE ] My sentiments exactly. Doesn't "protecting your own hand" include not releasing it to another player across the table?
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