Razz in Casinos?

[*TT*]

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Borgata will spread HORSE upon request if you have enough players (10/20 minimum), and they will also spread razz at the highest limits.

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I wasn't aware of this, my understanding is that razz isn't approved by the CCC. Is it okay because it's 7CS variant or something? In dealing school they don't even teach it here. I'd never seen even HORSE in the city (though I have seen HOSE/SHOE on occasion).

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They spread a 10/20 horse game for us at the Borg last year. Unfortunately it didn't last long, it was a bit big for most of the players who wanted to play 4/8. Only draw games are not sanctioned in AC currently according to my source, but even then you can get a TD 2-7 game at the highest limits if you say please - the Borg doesn't want to lose business.

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[Gonso]

Here's the current list of approved games in AC. I suspect razz must be lumped under stud if they're letting Borgata spread it. That's not like the CCC though - they're pretty harsh here compared to Vegas. 5CD is on there also.

CCC, NJ Administrative Code (current as of Oct '06):

19:47-14.8 Types of permissible poker games

(a) A casino licensee may offer the following types of poker games:

1. Seven-card stud (high, high-low split and high-low split eight or better);
2. Hold 'Em (high)
3. Omaha (high, high-low split eight or better);
4. Five-card draw (high and low)
5. Five card stud (high); and
6. Mambo stud (high-low split six or better).

(b) No casino licensee shall offer or permit the playing of any poker game in it's casino room of casino simulcasting facility which is not authorized by this subchapter.

[*TT*]

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Here's the current list of approved games in AC. I suspect razz must be lumped under stud if they're letting Borgata spread it. That's not like the CCC though - they're pretty harsh here compared to Vegas. 5CD is on there also.

CCC, NJ Administrative Code (current as of Oct '06):

19:47-14.8 Types of permissible poker games

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I was surprised to learn last year that CC must authorize each individual room's rule set and game selection. For example the infamous "no straddling" rule was casino specific, not an industry wide rule. I would assume Razz is included under the Stud variants, I am really surprised to see that 5CD was included on the list since Borgata told me it wan't an approved game in AC.

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[eastcoaster]

The old room at Showboat (in the back of Jake's Betting Parlor) used to have a $5-10 5CD game that went regularly on weekends...an incredible rock garden though. I also saw them spread a $2-10 5-stud game there once, as well. Only place I ever saw those games spread in a casino.

Not sure about razz since all of those 7-Stud games listed in the rule are either for high or high/low...and not specifically for just low...and the CCC is pretty strict about that stuff (i.e. they are stating clearly whether the game is for high or high/low). If it is included in rotation games then I wouldn't think it's an issue...but who knows. Would be cool to see some razz games spread in AC.

[blee24]

I was at Foxwoods a month or so ago, and they called the interest list for 4/8 HORSE around 6pm on a Sunday. I was the only player that showed up (everyone on the list had signed up in the morning and probably most had left town). While I was waiting for people to show up, I was chatting with the dealer. I mentioned that I'd really like to play straight razz instead of HORSE. The dealer goes, "So what is Razz anyways? They never taught us that." Maybe its a good thing the HORSE game didn't go. I can imagine the confusion when both players AND the dealer aren't familiar with the game!

[SGspecial]

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While I was waiting for people to show up, I was chatting with the dealer. I mentioned that I'd really like to play straight razz instead of HORSE. The dealer goes, "So what is Razz anyways? They never taught us that." Maybe its a good thing the HORSE game didn't go. I can imagine the confusion when both players AND the dealer aren't familiar with the game!

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at least he was only dealing at a 4/8 table. at this summer's WSOP Razz event, the dealer at my first table had no idea how to play Razz either, and even tried to deal a flop on the first hand!

[SGspecial]

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On my first trip to Vegas, 1995 or 1996, Treasue Island had a $1-5 razz game. Just razz, nothing else. I have never seen it anywhere else.

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wow, I've never seen a Razz game (live or online) with spread limits before. I wonder how the action was in those games?

p.s. for all you east coasters: since AC won't spread a Razz only game, someone will just have to organize a home game in S. NJ instead. Any volunteers?

[*TT*]

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While I was waiting for people to show up, I was chatting with the dealer. I mentioned that I'd really like to play straight razz instead of HORSE. The dealer goes, "So what is Razz anyways? They never taught us that." Maybe its a good thing the HORSE game didn't go. I can imagine the confusion when both players AND the dealer aren't familiar with the game!

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at least he was only dealing at a 4/8 table. at this summer's WSOP Razz event, the dealer at my first table had no idea how to play Razz either, and even tried to deal a flop on the first hand!

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Thats surprisingly common even with experienced RAZZ dealers, its a mistake that happens all the time.

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[bav]

Because most dealers in most rooms deal nothing but hold-em 8 hours a day every day of the week, they have a hard time adapting to any other game. Mind you, most of the dealers I know really LIKE being able to do something other than hold-em because it's a nice change of pace; a few, however, get the deer-in-headlights look when someone says "you're dealing deuce to seven". But yeah, the deeply ingrained hold-em dealing habits are hard to break.

At 90% of strip poker rooms, when you sit at anything but hold-em you cannot expect the dealers will know the game very well. They do better at Bellagio and Wynn where they regularly have to deal a variety, but other places you need to be patient and have a bit of a sense of humor about it.

I stood by the very high limit games for a few minutes at this year's WSOP and watched the dealer push at the chinese poker and mix game. The pros who were playing were surprisingly good-natured about it and did a good job of coaching the new dealers. The chinese poker guy just stated to Chan and Helmuth "I've never dealt this and I don't know the rules" and they just step-by-step told him what to do. Same with the dealer pushing into the mix game, who had NO clue how to deal triple draw and when doing the draw actually tried to deal one card to the 1-seat then one card to the 2-seat then one card to the 3-seat and Todd Brunson calmly stopped him, told him to retrieve the cards, and deal all 3 cards to the first player before moving on to the next.

Never seen the pro's be so nice to the dealers. I figure they probably initially tried being their normal gruff selves and found it just made the game go slower, so they had to switch on the charm and actually be patient and pleasant to the dealers.

[Troll_Inc]

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Never seen the pro's be so nice to the dealers. I figure they probably initially tried being their normal gruff selves and found it just made the game go slower, so they had to switch on the charm and actually be patient and pleasant to the dealers.

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At WSOP they seemed to change the cash game dealers every 30 minutes, so there's really no point in getting pissed (unless you want to get pissed every 30 min, which would get old.)

For PLO, there's a nice pregnant pause after everyone gets their 2nd card. The whole time I was there only one dealer dealt us 4 right away. They were surprsingly much better at counting out the amounts of pot sized bets in re-raised pots.