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#21
08-25-2007, 12:41 PM
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Re: $220 bdubs shoves j2s
I don't think the push is that bad. If he doesn't push now, after the blinds get thru, he'll have barely 1k left which wouldn't be that much of a threat for later AI.
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#22
08-25-2007, 01:00 PM
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Re: $220 bdubs shoves j2s
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] *stack is threatening enough to warrent folds from a decent range of hands ( much more so then after a round of blinds ). *bb may be less apt to defend (gamble ) then other players *shover also pushes monsters here to complete his range warrenting the above folds. [/ QUOTE ] QFH [/ QUOTE ] ah well, i tried...and i dont think im especially wrong. would you please give me some insight!? [/ QUOTE ] ICM [/ QUOTE ] ice cream man? is this some theorem i've missed!? there were just alot of vague answers and i thought id toss out some thoughts. im not saying the play is especially correct, but i dont see it being bad either as i'll take spots like these with a note or two. im just giving our op a few examples that i find to be plausible reasons for making this play asl hbo dvd vh1 etc
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#23
08-25-2007, 01:00 PM
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Re: $220 bdubs shoves j2s
but i'm here to learn, so i would like your insight.
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#25
08-25-2007, 01:11 PM
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Re: $220 bdubs shoves j2s
Here's the deal - yes you can make the ranges tight enough that this looks ok. But if you plan on ever playing with these people more than once, and they catch you doing this, those ranges will widen way way up. To the point where you start getting called by KJ+, QTs+, any PP.
There's a whole league of semi-regular and regular players who don't really understand that even though you *may* be ahead, you still shouldn't call. They just know "gotcha". You really don't want those guys getting a "shoves crap" note on you.
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#26
08-25-2007, 01:36 PM
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Re: $220 bdubs shoves j2s
This push could be good if opponents are tight, or if he's been tight, making their ranges tight. Setting opponents to top 10% (55+,AT+), SNGwiz says +.07%. I think that's a reasonable range. Remember this is 6-max so you have to apply a different payout structure.
*Also- 2 things I don't agree with. He can't take a -EV push here just because the blinds will take him down to 1000 in a few hands. That is still plenty of chips with plenty of FE. Saying he does this with his premiums too doesn't justify a -EV push either. Of course he is pushing premiums too, he has 8 BBs, people know this.
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#27
08-25-2007, 01:42 PM
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Re: $220 bdubs shoves j2s
ooooh icm.....i understood that man, i was just messing around ( i dont like to toss around the "l" word ), but i think qfh is a bit harsh regarding justifiable thoughts taking our ice cream man into account. thanks anyhow.
suzzer: this is a good post for people to see, ty. this im sure is obvious to you and most experienced players, but ill say that i still think that as long as youre open shoving a good ratio of any two hands type hands to premium hands (1/3,1/4), the odds are still with you. watching beanmo play was a good learning tool for me initially. fwiw ( again, directed to those with not as much experience ), if youre playing smaller s&gs ( 11-33 especially ) i find labeling every player at the table with the default color helps me to be instantly wary of my shoving range if i havent taken detailed notes, and am multitabling. thanks for the input!
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#28
08-25-2007, 03:12 PM
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Re: $220 bdubs shoves j2s
It's def a thin push, but not god-horrendous or anything. I personally don't push this light, but maybe it is necessary in this particular game.
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#30
08-25-2007, 03:24 PM
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Re: $220 bdubs shoves j2s
[ QUOTE ]
Here's the deal - yes you can make the ranges tight enough that this looks ok. But if you plan on ever playing with these people more than once, and they catch you doing this, those ranges will widen way way up. To the point where you start getting called by KJ+, QTs+, any PP. There's a whole league of semi-regular and regular players who don't really understand that even though you *may* be ahead, you still shouldn't call. They just know "gotcha". You really don't want those guys getting a "shoves crap" note on you. [/ QUOTE ] very well said suzzer. too many people are looking at the hand in a vacuum.
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