Love it or leave it...put up or shut up...and other such sentiments

[John Kilduff]

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His position is very different than the AC position. He has an implicit (if not explicit) assumption that SOME government is fine.

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That, however, is not true. I love this country. I’m deliriously happy with the way it was set up

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That is very different than the AC position.

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You are correct. In my haste I did not notice that you were posing the question only to the AC position.

I do like his reasoning, though, and think it answers well to a more general sort of query along the lines of "If you don't like it, why don't you leave?"

[Borodog]

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Because I shouldn't have to leave. Because the other alternatives are worse. Because I would rather stay and try to make a change, however futile the effort. Who is worse, someone who doesn't like the status quo and tries to peacefully convince others to agree with him that a sea change needs to occur, or someone who tells theat person to STFU and GTFO?

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I don't mean to be derogatory,

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Yes, of course you do.

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but I might be. Apologies in advance. But last I checked you don't vote.

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Lol at voting. You can't remove an evil system by participating in it.

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And I've never heard of ACists getting together in a big rally, drawing in people and educating them.

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Perhaps you haven't looked too hard. Why don't you come to the Austrian Scholars Conference next year?

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So how exactly are you making a change? In your spare time on 2p2, preaching mostly to the converted?

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Why, exactly, do you think they are converted? Shall we try another poll asking how many have converted to free market principles around here since they began reading the posts of people like pvn, Will Magic, The Don, etc?

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Either you don't believe that strongly in your claims of being oppressed, or you don't care that much.

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I find it impossible to respond effectively to this statement without violating the policies of the forum. Insert an appropriate comment about what you can go do with yourself here.

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It really wouldn't be that difficult to make huge strides toward AC under the current system. Vote in some Libertarians for 1.

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Why, yes! Of course! I'll go vote in some libertarians tomorrow! Why didn't I think of that? Oh wait. Because I can't. Duh.

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If the people en masse do not believe in the current system, the current system will go away.

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Wow, you got one thing right. Which is why I spend time convincing people not to believe in the current system.

[Kaj]

This type of logic is ridiculously lame. *ANY* political platform that is not close to mainstream has no chance of reasonable success over a lifetime ... so I guess all real liberals, conservatives, communists, socialists, libertarians, ACists, and the lot should all pack their bags ... so why again did you just use the ACists as your example?

[lehighguy]

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This question is meant in all seriousness...I'm not a "love it or leave it" kind of guy (at all.) But today I was thinking about the various AC positions on this board and I wondered why someone who really bought in to the whole AC thing would choose to stay in the US. Why choose to live under such an oppressive system when there is literally no chance whatsoever that the oppression will end in your lifetime? In your view, depending on your tax bracket, there is an entity out there that is literally taking 1/3 of your income and yet you sit by and let them do it. You watch as day in and day your liberty is taken from you and what do you do? You submit to the oppression.

Honestly, which is worse: someone who doesn't believe that they are being oppressed (even though you believe they are being oppressed) and goes on doing what they are doing; or someone who believes that they are being constantly oppressed (literally every second of the day --- oppressed by government taking your money and telling you what you can and cannot do) and, despite that belief, they acquiesce?

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If there was another country with an advanced economy that spoke English, had a similar culture, but had a much more AC style system, I'd be there. As far as the developed world goes, the US has the lowest levels of oppression, at least economically if you use Europe as the other option.

[Dan.]

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Wow, you got one thing right. Which is why I spend time convincing people not to believe in the current system.

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Thanks for circling back to my original question. How are you trying to convince people, personally? You're not to my knowledge a member of the inyaface Austrian scholars nor do you seem to do much of anything besides preach on 2p2. I really am curious.

And I say the converted because among politics regulars, the majority are AC.

[pvn]

Don't compain, because it's worse somewhere else!

[John Kilduff]

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This type of logic is ridiculously lame. *ANY* political platform that is not close to mainstream has no chance of reasonable success over a lifetime ... so I guess all real liberals, conservatives, communists, socialists, libertarians, ACists, and the lot should all pack their bags ... so why again did you just use the ACists as your example?

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Are you responding to me? I'm a bit confused, thanks.

[Kaj]

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Wow, you got one thing right. Which is why I spend time convincing people not to believe in the current system.

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Thanks for circling back to my original question. How are you trying to convince people, personally? You're not to my knowledge a member of the inyaface Austrian scholars nor do you seem to do much of anything besides preach on 2p2. I really am curious.

And I say the converted because among politics regulars, the majority are AC.

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That's unfair. We've seen in the past people who have said that much of the debate on this forum has helped shape or at least cement their views. Why pick on ACists in this matter -- the same could be said for ANY political persuasion. And I'm not ACist, nor personally do I believe that most on this board are despite your repeated attempts to characterize it as such.

[Dan.]

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Wow, you got one thing right. Which is why I spend time convincing people not to believe in the current system.

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Thanks for circling back to my original question. How are you trying to convince people, personally? You're not to my knowledge a member of the inyaface Austrian scholars nor do you seem to do much of anything besides preach on 2p2. I really am curious.

And I say the converted because among politics regulars, the majority are AC.

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That's unfair. We've seen in the past people who have said that much of the debate on this forum has helped shape or at least cement their views. Why pick on ACists in this matter -- the same could be said for ANY political persuasion. And I'm not ACist, nor personally do I believe that most on this board are despite your repeated attempts to characterize it as such.

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I'm not singling out ACists. If there were leftists on this board who were as ardent for their positions but weren't out working toward their goals, I'd question them as well.

[Brainwalter]

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[Thanks for circling back to my original question. How are you trying to convince people, personally? You're not to my knowledge a member of the inyaface Austrian scholars nor do you seem to do much of anything besides preach on 2p2. I really am curious.

[/ QUOTE ] You only know him through 2p2, right?

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And I say the converted because among politics regulars, the majority are AC.

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They weren't when borodog got here!