|
|
#21
08-16-2007, 02:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Comparing Championship Titles Across Sports
[ QUOTE ]
but I don't think you can so easily discount the other teams titles of the past, b/c they were winning within their own rule era. [/ QUOTE ] I think you can easily discount them in relation to teams winning now. Its harder overall to win now then it was 50-60 years ago. For some leagues, its even 20-30 years ago. Lets be clear thought, you can't take away titles from previous eras, you can't even compare teams. I see this as how people constantly compare players from different era's. Its not something you can do, but I think everyone would agree that players overall are better nowadays. In that same vein, teams are better overall these days. The amount of competition, both on the court/field and off are also immense in comparison. For a sport like football, salary caps and free agency, can greatly effect a teams chance of winning. You can't compare a stretch of titles won now, versus titles won 30 years ago. If you look at the NBA, the teams were horrible 30 years ago. Basketball itself wasn't even a really popular sport, and until a certain Pete Maravich came around, the sport was boring and rigid. teams won by taking hours to take the perfect shot. Its a completely different game now, with players that are ass loads more athletic and talented. You are right that teams with "immortals" win in the NBA, but you know what, the teams that win also have excellent rosters, a great coach, and a good front office. These teams are unreal. The Spurs being a perfect example. You can even look at the Lakers from a few years ago. of course its Shaq and Kobe, but you know what, the rest of the team was good as well. I think a reasonable argument could be made that the best NBA teams of all time, are all from the last 15-20 years. To me thats why the most recent "dynasty's", the MJ Bulls, Lakers, and Spurs are the best teams thus far ever assembled in the NBA. I don't know enough about the Celts and Pistons teams of the 80's to comment, but from what others have told me, they are probably in this same group. We could go through all 4 major sports and a similar trend would appear IMO. 
|
|
#22
08-16-2007, 02:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Comparing Championship Titles Across Sports
[ QUOTE ]
If you look at the NBA, the teams were horrible 30 years ago. Basketball itself wasn't even a really popular sport, and until a certain Pete Maravich came around, the sport was boring and rigid. teams won by taking hours to take the perfect shot. [/ QUOTE ] ORLY? 1967 76ers: 100 FGA per game 1977 Trail Blazers: 91.9 FGA per game 1987 Lakers: 88.3 FGA per game 1997 Bulls: 84.4 FGA per game 2007 Spurs: 77.1 FGA per game (even the high scoring Suns only took 83.6 FGA/game).
|
|
#23
08-16-2007, 02:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Comparing Championship Titles Across Sports
[ QUOTE ]
The Pats had a 4-year run out of this arbitrary 37 year timeframe, including one totally luckbox run. Let's not get carried away. [/ QUOTE ] They're also the favorite to win the Super Bowl this year. I hate the Patriots more than anyone but their run is pretty incredible when you factor in how the NFL salary cap works.
|
|
#24
08-16-2007, 02:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Comparing Championship Titles Across Sports
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If you look at the NBA, the teams were horrible 30 years ago. Basketball itself wasn't even a really popular sport, and until a certain Pete Maravich came around, the sport was boring and rigid. teams won by taking hours to take the perfect shot. [/ QUOTE ] ORLY? 1967 76ers: 100 FGA per game 1977 Trail Blazers: 91.9 FGA per game 1987 Lakers: 88.3 FGA per game 1997 Bulls: 84.4 FGA per game 2007 Spurs: 77.1 FGA per game (even the high scoring Suns only took 83.6 FGA/game). [/ QUOTE ] This is sort of weird, because FG% since the mid 90s is about the same as the late 60s, a little lower than the 70s, and much lower than the 80s/early 90s. I guess it has do with the prominence of the 3pt shot. 3PA have risen steadily since its inception (with a small spike during the 3 year period from 95-97 when the line was a shorter 22 feet). I guess defensive improvements could have something to do with it as well.
|
|
#25
08-16-2007, 02:52 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Comparing Championship Titles Across Sports
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The Pats had a 4-year run out of this arbitrary 37 year timeframe, including one totally luckbox run. Let's not get carried away. [/ QUOTE ] They're also the favorite to win the Super Bowl this year. I hate the Patriots more than anyone but their run is pretty incredible when you factor in how the NFL salary cap works. [/ QUOTE ] The Pats run could have easily been the Eagles run (if McNabb stayed healthy) or the Colts run. Especially when you consider there first SB was a complete luckbox.
|
|
#26
08-16-2007, 02:54 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Comparing Championship Titles Across Sports
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you look at the NBA, the teams were horrible 30 years ago. Basketball itself wasn't even a really popular sport, and until a certain Pete Maravich came around, the sport was boring and rigid. teams won by taking hours to take the perfect shot. [/ QUOTE ] ORLY? 1967 76ers: 100 FGA per game 1977 Trail Blazers: 91.9 FGA per game 1987 Lakers: 88.3 FGA per game 1997 Bulls: 84.4 FGA per game 2007 Spurs: 77.1 FGA per game (even the high scoring Suns only took 83.6 FGA/game). [/ QUOTE ] This is sort of weird, because FG% since the mid 90s is about the same as the late 60s, a little lower than the 70s, and much lower than the 80s/early 90s. I guess it has do with the prominence of the 3pt shot. 3PA have risen steadily since its inception (with a small spike during the 3 year period from 95-97 when the line was a shorter 22 feet). I guess defensive improvements could have something to do with it as well. [/ QUOTE ] Defense is much improved these days compared to 20+ years ago. My point was that it's just ludicrous to think that teams 30 years ago took a long time to set up their shots, when it's obvious they took a lot more shots back then than they do now.
|
|
#27
08-16-2007, 02:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Comparing Championship Titles Across Sports
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If you look at the NBA, the teams were horrible 30 years ago. Basketball itself wasn't even a really popular sport, and until a certain Pete Maravich came around, the sport was boring and rigid. teams won by taking hours to take the perfect shot. [/ QUOTE ] ORLY? 1967 76ers: 100 FGA per game 1977 Trail Blazers: 91.9 FGA per game 1987 Lakers: 88.3 FGA per game 1997 Bulls: 84.4 FGA per game 2007 Spurs: 77.1 FGA per game (even the high scoring Suns only took 83.6 FGA/game). [/ QUOTE ]I don't see what the issue is? I obviously exaggerated, however the fact remains that the game was fundamentally different 30-40 years ago. In addition, their is a direct correlation between the number of shots taken and the teams being poor.
|
|
#28
08-16-2007, 02:59 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Comparing Championship Titles Across Sports
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The Pats had a 4-year run out of this arbitrary 37 year timeframe, including one totally luckbox run. Let's not get carried away. [/ QUOTE ] They're also the favorite to win the Super Bowl this year. I hate the Patriots more than anyone but their run is pretty incredible when you factor in how the NFL salary cap works. [/ QUOTE ] If the Pats win this year, and thats obviously a big if before the season even starts, they will definitely rank among the top football dynasties ever. Keeping Samuel would be huge for them continuing this success down the line as well, many of their other key players are signed for a couples years ahead already.
|
|
#29
08-16-2007, 03:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Comparing Championship Titles Across Sports
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If you look at the NBA, the teams were horrible 30 years ago. Basketball itself wasn't even a really popular sport, and until a certain Pete Maravich came around, the sport was boring and rigid. teams won by taking hours to take the perfect shot. [/ QUOTE ] ORLY? 1967 76ers: 100 FGA per game 1977 Trail Blazers: 91.9 FGA per game 1987 Lakers: 88.3 FGA per game 1997 Bulls: 84.4 FGA per game 2007 Spurs: 77.1 FGA per game (even the high scoring Suns only took 83.6 FGA/game). [/ QUOTE ]I don't see what the issue is? I obviously exaggerated, however the fact remains that the game was fundamentally different 30-40 years ago. In addition, their is a direct correlation between the number of shots taken and the teams being poor. [/ QUOTE ] You implied that teams rarely shot the ball back then, when anyone who follows the sport knows that shot attempts have been going down steadily for years. Also, I think you're being unfair to the older teams. No one is asking if the 69 Celtics could beat the 07 Spurs. What we're doing is comparing the accomplishments of those Celtics (relative to their competition) with the accomplishments of those Spurs. The Celtics won 11 titles in 13 years, which is better than 4 titles in 10 years. So give the Celtics credit for that. But the Spurs won in a much tougher enviroment, so they get credit for that also. How you balance the achievements of those teams is what this thread is about. Just saying that those Celtics sucked compared to the Spurs is not answering the question being asked. (E.g., the car that won the 1911 Indy 500 couldn't beat a 2007 Honda Accord in a race. Doesn't mean that the accomplishment of that driver can't be compared to a modern driver. It's not his fault that a 1911 car is slow. In a similar manner, it's not Bill Russel's fault that he played in an 8 team league.
|
|
#30
08-16-2007, 03:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Comparing Championship Titles Across Sports
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If you look at the NBA, the teams were horrible 30 years ago. Basketball itself wasn't even a really popular sport, and until a certain Pete Maravich came around, the sport was boring and rigid. teams won by taking hours to take the perfect shot. [/ QUOTE ] ORLY? 1967 76ers: 100 FGA per game 1977 Trail Blazers: 91.9 FGA per game 1987 Lakers: 88.3 FGA per game 1997 Bulls: 84.4 FGA per game 2007 Spurs: 77.1 FGA per game (even the high scoring Suns only took 83.6 FGA/game). [/ QUOTE ] Great stat.
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
