multitabling and 1-2-3 distribution

[bogey1]

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1st place is heavily affected by got lucky (cards or suckouts). Survival (2nd/3rd) is where skill shows up more often.

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So it takes less skill to finish 1st? I'll keep that in mind...

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Are being intentionally dense? I said nothing of the sort. Skill applies equally. Luck has a heavy play in placement.

A guy who runs hot for 50 hands is going to crush any individual SNG (well, turbo anyway). That same guy is going to get crushed in a MTT that lasts hundreds of hands. The WSOP ME often talks about how the 1st day chip leader rarely survives day 2. Same principle.

I'd expect a good player to get 1st/2nd/3rd more often than most. I'd expect the same good player isn't donking off chips to the guy running hot, which means the good player is hitting ITM at a chip disadvantage. If the blinds are high enough, which they often are at that point, then final placement his heavily influenced by relative chip stacks.

I said absolutely nothing about less skill. I did say 1st is going to take more luck. Running hot requires luck. Not being stupid takes skill. Not being stupid will get you a good shot at ITM.

[MatteyA28]

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wow 2-3 , 2-1 is quite an improvement. when you say reviewing hh's- you specificaly mean looking at your shoves in sngpt right? also how many sngs do you play at a time? and what is the sage system? basic sng strategy? tight early, fold/shove late?

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Sage is a push fold system for heads up scenarios with effective stacks of 10 bb or less. Google it or do a forum search for specifics there is a lot of information on it out there. As for reviewing my hand histories I look at hands with effective stacks of less than 20 bb as that is the area most like the end of a sng.

[BicVicTheQuick]

You'll even find a SAGE calculator on overcards.com!
This discussion comes up very often here...SAGE or Nash seems to be unexploitable but ONLY if both are playing Nash. Am I missing something here?

Anyway I have a similar problem heads up. I'm always pushing very aggressive and calling tighter but you really need a hughe sample size for the cards to even out. After analyzing my HU game over and over again, it seems that I'm just a little bit mor unlucky then my normal share. But my samplesize of 1500+ is probably too small for an accurate analyzis.

[plexiq]

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You'll even find a SAGE calculator on overcards.com!
This discussion comes up very often here...SAGE or Nash seems to be unexploitable but ONLY if both are playing Nash. Am I missing something here?


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Nash is unexploitable if both players play push/fold. And as far as i know, Sage is only an "easy to remember" approximation of Nash. Nash should have some very marginal Edge on Sage.

[Guthrie]

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This discussion comes up very often here...SAGE or Nash seems to be unexploitable but ONLY if both are playing Nash. Am I missing something here?

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And they almost never are. Many players will just fold everything HU until they get a pair, an ace, two big suited cards, or a monster, then call and take back everything they gave up by folding, and then some.

[BicVicTheQuick]

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Sage is only an "easy to remember" approximation of Nash. Nash should have some very marginal Edge on Sage

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Your right here, but the edge on Sage is really very, very marginal....

[BradleyT]

Yeah but having this on your 2nd monitor is much easier than memorizing SAGE [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]



Shrunken down for obvious reasons.

[CheeseMoney]

BradleyT do you have a link to that chart? Mine's not in color...

[BradleyT]

I made it myself using the HU tutorial in the paid version of SNGPT. That part of the tutorial is an HTML page so I copied and pasted the HTML tags for each of the push tables and formatted it into a web page using dreamweaver. It's not on the web anywhere, it's on my hard drive.


I could probably send you a copy if you can prove that you have SnGPT by showing me a screenshot of 5 players, you have A7o, buy in $6.50 and 5 various stack sizes.

[CheeseMoney]

Sent you pm.