X-Post: Man arrested for not showing officer his License

[CORed]

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what if you don't have i.d. on you?

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I'm pretty sure that there are Supreme Court rulings to the effect that you don't have any obligation to show police your ID unless under arrest. I'm to lazy to check, though.

[Misfire]

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I'm a little less certain about showing receipt to store personnel. It's private property and I think they should have some latitude as to what rules they establish.

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The guy paid for the item. It was no longer their property.

[Misfire]

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I don't link to discussions on bulletin boards because they are extremely unreliable.

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You could help by not posting on them. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[iron81]

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Can you forcibly arrest/detain someone for breaching a civil contract with no reasonable suspicion of criminal activity?

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Merely walking out of the store and ignoring commands to stop with a bag full of merchandise probably constitutes reasonable suspicion. Its a very low standard. But between the cop and the receipt checker, I'm only about 80% sure the guy is completely in the right.

[ematz]

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He's wrong and he should lose. Stores post that they have the right to inspect packages on leaving, and they have every right to do so to discourage shoplifting.

[/ QUOTE ] If the store posts it has the right to kick you in the nuts on your way out as well (to discourage shoplifing of course) does it have every right to do so? What about if it posts a right to racial profile minorities. Is that ok too?

--(I know the same thing I said on the other board pretty much)

[Phil153]

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Can you forcibly arrest/detain someone for breaching a civil contract with no reasonable suspicion of criminal activity?

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Merely walking out of the store and ignoring commands to stop with a bag full of merchandise probably constitutes reasonable suspicion.

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Of shoplifting? I was always under the impression that reasonable suspicion required for a citizen's arrest is fairly high. I read several mentions of state laws with a requirement the security officer actually see someone shoplifting in order to physically detain. The use of restraining force is treated as a serious business by the courts.

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Its a very low standard. But between the cop and the receipt checker, I'm only about 80% sure the guy is completely in the right.

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One of the problems I have with this position is that anyone asserting their rights is automatically subject to "reasonable suspicion". I can't see any court accepting that the mere invoking of rights allows for a status of heightened suspicion.

[niss]

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Can you forcibly arrest/detain someone for breaching a civil contract with no reasonable suspicion of criminal activity?

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Merely walking out of the store and ignoring commands to stop with a bag full of merchandise probably constitutes reasonable suspicion. Its a very low standard. But between the cop and the receipt checker, I'm only about 80% sure the guy is completely in the right.

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This seems like a huge oversimplification.

We are not talking about a *person* having reasonable suspicion, we are talking about the *business*, on whose behalf the receipt checker acts. The *business*, through its cashier, saw you unload your wagon, ring up everything in there, pay the price the *business* told you to pay. The *business* bagged your goods for you, and gave you a receipt. You then walk towards the door with the goods *they* bagged for you, with the receipt *they* handed to you, and they have reasonable suspicion to stop you if you don't stop to show your receipt to someone standing 10 steps from the cashier? I don't think so.

[niss]

One other thing on this topic, on a personal level.

I am not offended by the idea of Best Buy asking me to show my receipt when I'm leaving. If they think it helps them avoid losses, and helps in any way keep their prices down, I'm happy to help.

What I am offended by is Best Buy treating me like I'm obligated to do this. When the receipt checker asks me nicely and treats me like a customer, he has my full cooperation. But when it's some rude punk or nasty old man who thinks he's doing me a favor by letting me leave the store with MY STUFF, I am much less likely to tolerate this very minor infringement of my rights.

[Copernicus]

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if...there is a reasonable expectation on behalf of the shopper that a receipt must be shown, then the store has the right to inspect.

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A right to inspect, sure (whatever that means), but the right to detain? Can you forcibly arrest/detain someone for breaching a civil contract with no reasonable suspicion of criminal activity? That's a resounding no I think.

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The issue is whether the refusal to show receipts and allow inspection is sufficient to create reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. If so, then yes, detention is permitted. It is similar to provisions for "citizens arrest".

[Copernicus]

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...In fact, if you really love America and its ideals, you should vehemently speak out when your govt or its officials trample liberty, freedom, self-determination, democracy, etc. To do otherwise shows you don't value supposed American ideals, only American power and wealth.

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QFT

I can't comprehend how people really see any of the actions taken by the CC employees or the PO in this case as anything other then onerous and downright UNAmerican.

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Yup protecting a business' assets and requesting positive ID from someone suspected of shoplifting is soooooo un
American.