An Observation About Hellmuth From The $1500 w/Rebuys

[Howard Treesong]

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I guess it could be +ev, i dont know. But personally I'd rather open fold or make a standard raise rather than shove here.

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Any Ace is marginally +ev if the rest of the table is reasonably tight (AJ+,77+), but I think you waste AQs, AK, AA here often enough that it is just silly to push without looking. Once you see that first A, it is definitely a leak to jam the 1/20 times you get dealt AA.

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I would probably push Axs or A9o+, but it might be OK to push Axo. I agree that you want to look at your other card atleast to see if it is an A,K, or Q. I really don't like standard raising A4o in this position and stack size.

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I don't like a standard raise with A4o here, either. But for metagame issues, a standard raise with AA and AK-AQ is fine, but on the metagame point, I think a standard raise on that range gives off too much information here. I'd rather play any bet for a push in this spot.

[djk123]

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I guess it could be +ev, i dont know. But personally I'd rather open fold or make a standard raise rather than shove here.

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Any Ace is marginally +ev if the rest of the table is reasonably tight (AJ+,77+), but I think you waste AQs, AK, AA here often enough that it is just silly to push without looking. Once you see that first A, it is definitely a leak to jam the 1/20 times you get dealt AA.

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I would probably push Axs or A9o+, but it might be OK to push Axo. I agree that you want to look at your other card atleast to see if it is an A,K, or Q. I really don't like standard raising A4o in this position and stack size.

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I don't like a standard raise with A4o here, either. But for metagame issues, a standard raise with AA and AK-AQ is fine, but on the metagame point, I think a standard raise on that range gives off too much information here. I'd rather play any bet for a push in this spot.

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Why are you worrying about metagame in a donkafied tournament with people who you will likely never play against again?

And I'm not saying a standard raise here w/ A4o is necessarily optimal in this spot, but it is certainly better than pushing. I think folding is best unless your table is really nitty. Then standard raise would be best.

[IWEARGOGGLES]

I think any A is pretty bad from MP2 or wherever you are.

I also think the 14k resteal against Hellmuth is marginal at best.

But whatevs Hellmuth rules.

[nath]

The only similarity, really, is that he knows you're capable of making moves without a hand. That may just mean his hand is worth a call now given the odds whereas many other unknown's ranges would indicate a fold.

But probably he just was needling you.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with the push. It might not be awesome, but it's not a bad play.

[betgo]

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I guess it could be +ev, i dont know. But personally I'd rather open fold or make a standard raise rather than shove here.

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Any Ace is marginally +ev if the rest of the table is reasonably tight (AJ+,77+), but I think you waste AQs, AK, AA here often enough that it is just silly to push without looking. Once you see that first A, it is definitely a leak to jam the 1/20 times you get dealt AA.

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I would probably push Axs or A9o+, but it might be OK to push Axo. I agree that you want to look at your other card atleast to see if it is an A,K, or Q. I really don't like standard raising A4o in this position and stack size.

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I don't like a standard raise with A4o here, either. But for metagame issues, a standard raise with AA and AK-AQ is fine, but on the metagame point, I think a standard raise on that range gives off too much information here. I'd rather play any bet for a push in this spot.

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I would standard raise AA, AK, and AQ, and also standard raise some of your steals. A4o is not a good hand to see a flop with, but I might raise/fold 86s, JTo or something.

[Howard Treesong]

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I think any A is pretty bad from MP2 or wherever you are.

I also think the 14k resteal against Hellmuth is marginal at best.

But whatevs Hellmuth rules.

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Well, we disagree on the first push. The second one was clearly marginal, and in retrospect, I don't like it.

I'm divided about Phil. I've played with him many times, and I have a hard time not liking him: he really can be charismatic. But he's also an uberdouche at times, and his schtick can be superannoying.

[Howard Treesong]

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I guess it could be +ev, i dont know. But personally I'd rather open fold or make a standard raise rather than shove here.

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Any Ace is marginally +ev if the rest of the table is reasonably tight (AJ+,77+), but I think you waste AQs, AK, AA here often enough that it is just silly to push without looking. Once you see that first A, it is definitely a leak to jam the 1/20 times you get dealt AA.

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I would probably push Axs or A9o+, but it might be OK to push Axo. I agree that you want to look at your other card atleast to see if it is an A,K, or Q. I really don't like standard raising A4o in this position and stack size.

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I don't like a standard raise with A4o here, either. But for metagame issues, a standard raise with AA and AK-AQ is fine, but on the metagame point, I think a standard raise on that range gives off too much information here. I'd rather play any bet for a push in this spot.

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Why are you worrying about metagame in a donkafied tournament with people who you will likely never play against again?

And I'm not saying a standard raise here w/ A4o is necessarily optimal in this spot, but it is certainly better than pushing. I think folding is best unless your table is really nitty. Then standard raise would be best.

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Well, at 200-400-50, there's 1100 in the middle. At this particular table, raises were going to either 1600 or 2000. If I'm raised coming back around, what's my plan? If I'm raised, it's going to be for my whole stack. Which in turn means that there will be 4300 to 5100 dead in the middle against my 3500 to 4000 or so; that's necessarily better than a 2:1 price coming back. Against 99+ and AT+, A4o is almost exactly 2:1 against. That looks like a pretty clear call to my eye.

If I'm going to call against a reasonable raising range from my opponents, I might as well shove: it takes away any notion that they have FE and maximizes my own FE.

I think the push is defensible. I think a standard raise is probably a worse play here.

[JARID]

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I look at one ace and push my stack without looking at the second card.


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For some reason, I decide to make a play with 8s7s and push.


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Not taking things very seriously for a guy who humped it 1k and 7 hours in a cab to make the event. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Howard Treesong]

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I look at one ace and push my stack without looking at the second card.


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For some reason, I decide to make a play with 8s7s and push.


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Not taking things very seriously for a guy who humped it 1k and 7 hours in a cab to make the event. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Well, the first of those is I think defensible. The second one isn't -- my brain kinda shut down as I made that decision. Still, the cab got me there for the 7:00p second-chancer that I won for $17931 or whatever it was.

[Jackal69]

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From this I conclude that Phil believes the two plays are similar. WTF?

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Howard,

shouldnt you just assume that Hellmuth will take any opportunity to make a 'not folding to you buddy' speech whether two situations are comparable or not?