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#21
07-26-2007, 04:39 PM
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Re: It\'s heads up and one player said the other said all in-ruling?
[ QUOTE ]
Very simply. Clarify what the other players action was before you act, and especially before revealing your hand. [/ QUOTE ] And then he says thats not what he said . . . end up in same spot. [/ QUOTE ] I'm saying you clarify before you act, then when he says he didn't go all in, then you get the correct answer and proceed w/ your action. You never get to the same place, because you made sure you heart right first. No premature flipping of the cards or anything like that. I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand. It feels like we're not understanding each other or something. 
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#22
07-26-2007, 10:35 PM
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Re: It\'s heads up and one player said the other said all in-ruling?
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why this is so difficult to understand. It feels like we're not understanding each other or something. [/ QUOTE ] Well we are starting with two different assumptions. You seem to be assuming that when this occurs it is always an issue of misunderstanding , but I start with the assumption that many times this will be dishonesty. Even if you believe the incidnt OP relates was not about dishonesty, decisions and procedures should be geared at keeping people from cheating.
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#23
07-26-2007, 11:09 PM
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Re: It\'s heads up and one player said the other said all in-ruling?
This is the only "fair" way to resolve this situation:
[ QUOTE ] The guy is jumping ahead of himself. If he thought he heard her say "all-in" and he called the bet, he should have waited to see her cards first. First of all, he has the right to see her cards first (even if it is a tourney) because he is the caller. Secondly, by waiting to see her cards first he makes sure that there were no misunderstandings. A lot of players just rush and rush and then situations of this sort happen. It's not good to rush when a lot is at stake. When I call, I always insists on the aggressor showing me his (her) cards first. So, my ruling would be that the guy was not acting responsibly. He is responsible for his own actions. [/ QUOTE ]
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#24
07-26-2007, 11:32 PM
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Re: It\'s heads up and one player said the other said all in-ruling?
[ QUOTE ]
This is the only "fair" way to resolve this situation: [ QUOTE ] The guy is jumping ahead of himself. If he thought he heard her say "all-in" and he called the bet, he should have waited to see her cards first. First of all, he has the right to see her cards first (even if it is a tourney) because he is the caller. Secondly, by waiting to see her cards first he makes sure that there were no misunderstandings. A lot of players just rush and rush and then situations of this sort happen. It's not good to rush when a lot is at stake. When I call, I always insists on the aggressor showing me his (her) cards first. So, my ruling would be that the guy was not acting responsibly. He is responsible for his own actions. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Your missing something in this. The player turning his cards up is not the only issue. Lets say he didn't turn them over. you still have the problem that he has revealed that he would call an all-in bet. If Player A was considering an all-in bet but he didn't want a call now he gets to check and fold (or call if there is a smaller bet)
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#25
07-27-2007, 05:19 AM
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Re: It\'s heads up and one player said the other said all in-ruling?
So, psandman, what's your proposed solution here? Player A should say, "I'm all-in, do you understand? All my chips are in the pot. I am shoving them in now. This is my bet. Do you realize this is what I'm doing?" Should Player B assume that Player A is not all-in if that is not done? If that's the case, then in the OP, Player A is in the right, because nothing specific was said.
I dunno, man, you seem to be on the path of madness with this one, which is surprising, since you're usually so level-headed and on the money. We just had a big tournament tonight, and I had forgotten about this thread, but whenever there was an all-in said without chips being pushed, I verified it. It's impossible to prove a negative, so I figure it's safest to get a positive before acting. This falls well within Rule #1.
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#26
07-27-2007, 05:33 AM
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Re: It\'s heads up and one player said the other said all in-ruling?
The solution is this.
There should be a disinterested dealer present. Preseumbably there was a host, even if you leave the game self dealt the host or someone should stay by the table at this point that it s heads up. That doesn't solve the problem after it happens, I don't have a solution for that unless one of these players has a history of these types of issues.
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#28
07-27-2007, 07:15 AM
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The decision
After 3 of the organizers deliberated for a while they decided to give the player who thought he heard all in half of a double up. In other words, say he had 10K in trny chips, they decided to give him 5K . Naturally this didn't make her very happy and she ended up on tilt for a little while. I would have too!
I have no idea what their logic was to that, but in thinking about it after the fact it doesn't seem fair.
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#29
07-27-2007, 08:13 AM
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Re: The decision
[ QUOTE ]
After 3 of the organizers deliberated for a while they decided to give the player who thought he heard all in half of a double up. In other words, say he had 10K in trny chips, they decided to give him 5K . Naturally this didn't make her very happy and she ended up on tilt for a little while. I would have too! I have no idea what their logic was to that, but in thinking about it after the fact it doesn't seem fair. [/ QUOTE ] so she ended up on tilt just because they called her a liar and a cheat?
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