#21
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Re: 50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep
I generally agree Matrix, but this bit confuses me:
[ QUOTE ] we don't close the action - SB can yet re-raise and then we are in a [censored] spot and have to fold (this will almost never happen tho unless he has the goods) [/ QUOTE ] How is this a con? The opposite is the case IMO - I think this is yet another reason to flat and I'd be fine getting it in if SB shoved. I can go either way preflop. HU, I'd be slightly more likely to flat, 3-way 4b. But looking at villain's stats, I think a 3b loses too much value. Flop, I think we need to raise to trap the pairs between 8's and Q's. |
#22
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Re: 50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep
I love to shove on this flop. You will occasionally see AA but will very often see 99-QQ (and a very rare split with KK). So many LAGs see this flop and are like "OMG I HAVE OVERPAIR" instacalling an all-in (they would never fear the 8 because the 8 tries to extract more value and probably only pushes on the turn).
This guy is LAGy and he 3-bets with a lot of hands. Your shove all-in keeps away the draws and extracts maximum value from the over-pairs below KK. Maybe this is a bit aggressive, but if you let this go to a turn card, there are a lot of cards you don't want to see that make your decision a lot more difficult. |
#23
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Re: 50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep
A PSR would be to $58.
I make it $50 and play for stacks. I would also play a draw, combo or set the same way if I got to the flop like we did. |
#24
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Re: 50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep
I feel like today is the day I agree with everything ICMoney is saying, but he hit it right on the head.
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#25
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Re: 50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep
One thought I just had:
I'm not sure how this reraise thing works on FT. If you raise to $50 and the SB pushes, he wouldn't have double to raise. So will BB and you just have to option to call/fold or will BB be able to reopen the betting and shove over you? You would have to raise to $42 instead of 50 to give the BB the option to reopen the betting if that's the case. I think this flop is a must-raise. Do we want to get it in here or raise and then get it in on a safe turn? If this was a 4b pot I think straight/flush draws would be less likely but they are in the range now. Obv this sb pushing and then bb pushing will prob be a fairly rare case. Maybe we should just focus on the big stack? Thoughts? |
#26
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Re: 50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep
Rather than give my own crappy reply I'd recommend reading Pokey's post in this thread which covers this hand preflop pretty much perfectly.
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#27
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Re: 50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep
Pokey suggested calling pfr and calling down on F/T/R but hero had KK on a Qxx dry flop.
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#28
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Re: 50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep
i raise flop and am happy getting it in.
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#29
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Re: 50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep
just for the sake of discussion for those saying dont 4 bet do you ever 4 bet with anything besides aces? or just dont 4 bet ever?
cause if im not 4 betting here than im not with aces either cause its just too transparent. guess what I am asking is if your not 4 betting here what spots are you 4 betting in? (im not saying that 4betting is >than flatting here just curious) |
#30
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Re: 50nl, KK hand 200bb+ deep
I 4bet to $17 because that is what I do with air and AK. If you don't 4bet light, and never really 4bet much at all, I would still go ahead and 4bet here just because the stacks are deep. Probably more to like $22.
As played, you got a good flop and you should raise and stack off. |
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