"All in?" asked as a question, not a statement - ruling? - Page 3

MicroBob · #21 08-30-2007, 06:37 PM

YTF - Do you seriously rule this a call?
I see this happen at least once or twice almost every time I play live NL.
Surely you must run into this multiple times practically every day.
People just too lazy to say "Is he?" before they say "all-in?" and have seemingly no clue that their question could be cause for some confusion.

This stuff annoys the crap out of me but it's usually done innocently by people who just don't know any better and aren't thinking.
I have yet to see it done where I thought it was an angle-shoot.

Al_Capone_Junior · #22 08-30-2007, 06:39 PM

Well if you like to play with your lighter while you're pumping gas, don't be surprised when things blow up in your face. Same deal here, the player would be at the mercy of the floor, and of course the player who holds the nuts and will try to make the all-in a reality by throwing a hissy and swaying the floor's decision. Maybe not being such an idiot is in order for a change. Maybe not trying to find every single last possible shade of grey for every single possible rule and ruling is the new order of the day. But I doubt it. With the dumbing down of america comes texas hold'em, and if this dumb **** winds up getting declared all-in, tough. The ruling should go towards the principle of obvious intent, but often it won't, and I'll offer no comfort for them (other than a KITN).

psandman · #23 08-30-2007, 06:51 PM

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What is the difference between the question "all in?" and the statement "did he say all in?"

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The second one will never make someone think, "That guy who said those words just moved all-in."

When it's your turn to act, your first words should not be "call, raise, fold, etc" unless that's what you want to do. Everyone at the table is expecting you to announce your action. If you're going to say anything that is NOT your intended action, you should make sure that you don't say something that could be mistakenly interpreted as your intended action.

Or you could keep saying things like "All-in?". You can keep bringing the game to a halt while we argue about what to do, and you can hope that a floorman doesn't rule that you have to push all your chips in when you don't want to.

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I agree, but if it is clear to everyone that this was not action and you were asking a question it would be wrong to treat it like action.

Degenerasian · #24 08-30-2007, 08:04 PM

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Just another good reason to speak in complete sentances.

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youtalkfunny · #25 08-31-2007, 02:29 AM

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YTF - Do you seriously rule this a call?

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Not if I can help it. But it's a cruel world, and sometimes I CAN'T help it.

This is a case where, as RR likes to say, there are so many variables that could be in play that we're not hearing about, that we can't be expected to make a reasonable ruling. How did everyone react to the idiot's "All=in???" That's important. Did it prompt out-of-turn action?, etc. We kneed to know these things.

Rick Nebiolo · #26 08-31-2007, 03:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
2/5NL stacks irrelevant. After the river is dealt Player A bets 60.00, Player B raises to 200.00, Player A, says, "I'm all in", Player B responds "all in?" as a question, not a statement.

Ruling?

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Let's pretend this happened in LA. As a floor it isn't easy to verify the facts (i.e., intonation; meaning of the declaration) in a city where just about every known language is spoken and the poker floor is a virtual powder keg.

If I could verify the facts as stated in the OP I'd rule it as action on Player B. But the reality is by the time any floor would be called he would be facing a nightmare of confusion and conflicting testimony.

Players need to be more careful. If you aren't sure of the action call time and ask the dealer "What is the action?". Avoid saying the words "bet" or "check" or questioning the action (i.e., "All in?"); such words are easily confused with actual action in a noisy, chaotic cardroom.

~ Rick

bernie · #27 08-31-2007, 03:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
2/5NL stacks irrelevant. After the river is dealt Player A bets 60.00, Player B raises to 200.00, Player A, says, "I'm all in", Player B responds "all in?" as a question, not a statement.

Ruling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see, in OP he knows it's a question. He even states that along with another 3 words: "Not a statement."

I think for player A to say B is declaring an action, and should be held to it, is an angle shot.

This really isn't that hard.

b

PrimogenitoX · #28 08-31-2007, 04:28 AM

Everyone who said they'd rule this a call is a retarded idiot. That is all.

Mr.WeakTight · #29 08-31-2007, 06:57 AM

best practice for players

"dealer, what was the action in front of me?"
or
"what was the previous player's bet?
or
"what did he say?"
or
"what was his wager?"

asks the question w/o using the words "all in" and thereby avoids the issue.

steamboatin · #30 08-31-2007, 07:07 AM

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such words are easily confused with actual action in a noisy, chaotic cardroom.

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Never been to Cali but I bet this sums up all the differences in Cali and Midwest Poker. Even on a busy riday night, you could Nap comfortably in Caesar's IN's poker room, if you had a place to lay down.

Midwest cardrooms are usually quiet unless something unusual occurs.